Wk 3: Daniel Jones Legit?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Point after show with Kyle Mauer, Marshall hesla and Ian DeWitt. This is the show where the guys attempt to pick the winners of the weekly NFL games along with some healthy debate about current topics. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:00:13] Speaker C: All right, guys, this is gonna be a fast pod. And we're done. We got the Lions episode. [00:00:19] Speaker D: Whatever. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Yep. [00:00:20] Speaker C: See you guys. [00:00:22] Speaker D: Thank you. Let's watch football. [00:00:25] Speaker B: After. Just kidding, guys. Come on. We got. We got some things to talk about. I know the lines are going on right now. If you are one of the people that listens to our pod while the Lions are going on, can you give us a time right now so they can just sync their pot up? What? What? How much time do they got? [00:00:38] Speaker D: Yes. [00:00:39] Speaker C: Scored. The Ravens just scored. [00:00:41] Speaker B: So it's seven. [00:00:42] Speaker D: Seven might not be the last score. [00:00:45] Speaker C: That's. Yeah, that might not have been specific enough. [00:00:49] Speaker B: Safe bet. [00:00:50] Speaker D: First quarter. [00:00:51] Speaker C: The over on this game is like ridiculously. [00:00:55] Speaker B: I would like you to look that up before. [00:00:58] Speaker C: Before I just throw out a rant. [00:01:00] Speaker B: I would really. I'm actually really interested. As somebody who's a degenerate, I sure. It's probably in like the 68, 71 range. Potentially. [00:01:10] Speaker C: I don't know. Betting props. I'm not like a big sports better, so this stuff is beyond me sometimes. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Something about you just makes me google guys. [00:01:20] Speaker C: Baltimore is a 4 1/2 point favorite for Monday's game with a total sitting at 53.53. [00:01:27] Speaker B: Take the over. Hammer it, buddy. [00:01:29] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what most people have been saying. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Whoa. 53. But prime time games have been kind of struggling with offense. Do you know we actually are in the lowest offensive yards per game since 2005 in the last 20 years. [00:01:42] Speaker D: No way. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Currently our offenses have struggled more this year than in recent past. [00:01:49] Speaker C: Do you want to know what really struggled this weekend? [00:01:52] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:01:53] Speaker C: Field goals. [00:01:54] Speaker D: Special teams. What a weekend for special teams. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Sherry. Not special. Very not special. [00:01:59] Speaker C: Well, depending on what side you are, I guess it was very special. [00:02:04] Speaker B: True, true. It was quite the ending of the games. I fell asleep to all of Ian's texts of all caps, all caps again, exclamation points. Screaming. I can only imagine what his house was like. At one point I was like, oh, I guess I gotta turn red zone back. I rewinded 40 minutes. [00:02:23] Speaker C: It was crazy. [00:02:24] Speaker D: That's a lot of nuts. That was a lot of texting. [00:02:26] Speaker C: I was legitimately watching the game. I'll be. The Packers Browns game was the only one that was remotely interesting. Odd, because the. The only other local game that we had was Vikings and Cincinnati. That was an absolute blowout. So I was forced to watch the absolute garbage that was Green Bay and Browns. That was a terrible game to watch. It was not good football, actually. Correction. If you love watching good defense, it was a good game for you. But it wasn't very entertaining. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Otherwise pretty pissed. Poor offense around. [00:03:02] Speaker C: It was really bad offense. Jordan Love. I was furious with that man. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:03:08] Speaker C: I was furious. [00:03:09] Speaker B: Doesn't it make you mad that he dominated your team? [00:03:12] Speaker C: Dominate. Dominate is a strong word. So I said it for what he did. Did they. They beat us as a collective. We don't have to. We don't have to go through this. [00:03:21] Speaker B: All right, let's get our question of the week. Ian, you got a good one on here for me. [00:03:25] Speaker C: I do. [00:03:26] Speaker B: It's specifically for me. That's why I think that's a good question. If it was for Kyle, it'd be just okay. [00:03:31] Speaker C: In case people don't know, Marshall has a new dog. What's. What's the dog's name? [00:03:38] Speaker B: His name's Golden. [00:03:39] Speaker C: What a beautiful name. What kind of dog is he? [00:03:43] Speaker B: He's a cocker spaniel. [00:03:44] Speaker C: Oh, I saw pictures. [00:03:46] Speaker D: Stinking. I just want. [00:03:47] Speaker C: He is very cute. [00:03:48] Speaker B: He had no accidents and walked three and a half miles with me after school. [00:03:52] Speaker C: I'm so proud of you right now, Golden. Not you. [00:03:54] Speaker B: That too, but. [00:03:57] Speaker C: So favorite pets and stories guys. [00:04:00] Speaker B: Favorite pet. [00:04:00] Speaker D: Did you grow up with pets commercial. [00:04:03] Speaker B: We had a couple dogs growing up. Very little dogs, but parents. My dad wasn't really a big fan of them and basically when everybody moved out, they went and got. And they were like sound adults. They went and got a pet. Jamie got a dog. Tommy got a dog. [00:04:19] Speaker D: Now you join the club. [00:04:19] Speaker C: Now is your. [00:04:20] Speaker B: I finally. I'm. I'm stable. [00:04:22] Speaker D: Is this how the new. Is this how your family is going to get the news? They're gonna listen to the pod. [00:04:27] Speaker B: It's funny. Probably as a 32 year old adult I shouldn't be like concerned about my parents being totally for it. But I did not tell them about it until I got him and they were like, huh. I actually chat gbt. How should I tell my parents? [00:04:44] Speaker C: Please tell me what they said. [00:04:45] Speaker B: Oh, ma', am. I got a really good description. I wish I could laugh at it but like it gave me some really good pointers and I just sent the text. They were really cool about it. I was. I'm doing over. I'm a chronic overthinker but love this pup. Dude, he's probably the chillest dog of all time. He's had no accidents in the house. The only time he had an accident was at pet supply. Plus when he was in the treat aisle, he was over sensitized. I'd probably be myself too. [00:05:08] Speaker D: I get it. Yeah. [00:05:09] Speaker B: So. But love the dog. He just loves sleeping in the chair right next to me and he's been good in his crate and I can't ask for anything more. He's just a happy pup. I love that he's just under a year. Take him to the groomer on Wednesday. He's gonna have a sick haircut. [00:05:26] Speaker D: Very nice. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Might have to double post him this week on social media. [00:05:30] Speaker C: Do it. [00:05:30] Speaker D: We might have to get him on the pod. We've got a fourth mic here, you know, we'll bring him into this. [00:05:34] Speaker B: Rick, is this a friendly. A dog friendly podcaster recording studio. I promise to clean up after him and. Oh, was that a little Blue's Clues. Did you know Steve from Blue's Clues has a great podcast? [00:05:49] Speaker D: No, I didn't. [00:05:50] Speaker C: Who is the original guy, by the way? [00:05:52] Speaker B: His name's Steve. [00:05:53] Speaker C: No, the original guy. [00:05:55] Speaker B: That is Steve. [00:05:55] Speaker C: That's Steve. [00:05:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:05:57] Speaker D: Oh my gosh. [00:05:57] Speaker C: Who's the second guy? [00:05:58] Speaker B: He has a great. It's his name, Steve Burns and his podcast is called Alive. He went viral during COVID for kind of coming back and saying, hey guys, it's been a long time. [00:06:08] Speaker C: How we doing? [00:06:09] Speaker B: Oh, wow. And he, he did a podcast and he's got two episodes in and I, I thoroughly enjoyed his podcast, the F. His first guest was Jamie Lee Curtis. [00:06:19] Speaker C: Wow. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Okay, so very good. Recommend it. Let's move to NFL. We're. We're talking about my dog. We're talking about Steve from Blues Clues. Let's talk about some NFL guys. We got some hot takes, some prompts, and the first one that we have comes from the one and only Kamish. [00:06:38] Speaker A: This is Adam Silver, AKA the Commish. And this is the commission report. All right, Niner nation. A win is a win, but it comes at an incredible cost. Bosa, out for the years once again has a fan base down bad. The reason this team is 3, 0 is largely due to the defense which is built different compared to last year with Soleil and its best player. Certainly when it comes to the D line and pass rush was just sidelined to the 26 season. That is not good. I admire their fight and will to win games, but let's face it, they've squeaked by in the three games they've played so far and the offense has looked kind of mid. They could easily just be and three. Yes, injuries happen in this game but it's really not explainable how this team sustained such a high number of them at key positions. This team is a Ricky Purcell injury away from having Kendrick Bourne and Sky Moore as its starting wide receivers. The fan base was nearly exposed to watching Adrian Martinez finish that game with Mac Jones hobbling around on that gimpy knee. I mean you work with what you got but it's not great. Hopefully Purdy can come back this week and the team can get a few members on offense back soon. It just has to, right? Come on. It has to. I checked out the highlights from the Eagles Rams game yesterday and the eyeball test will tell you the NERS are not FR in either team's league. It's a long year. Let's hope the worst of this non stop injury assault on the team subsides and they can make a real run at the division. Wrap the team in a bubble. This was the commission report. [00:08:03] Speaker C: Team. [00:08:04] Speaker B: I wake up every day and wonder what hashtag the commission is going to give us. Report. [00:08:09] Speaker C: He's asking what? [00:08:11] Speaker B: After you said that a couple weeks ago? Kyle, I can't. He. It's the bell. That cannot be done wrong. [00:08:15] Speaker C: See here. Here's the thing. He's asking like why they're having so many injuries all the time. It's because the new stadium was built on Indian Barrel ground. That's. [00:08:24] Speaker B: Wow. [00:08:24] Speaker C: That's what it is. [00:08:25] Speaker B: Okay, so they're. [00:08:26] Speaker C: They're haunted. [00:08:27] Speaker B: You heard it here first reported by the Niners. [00:08:31] Speaker C: The Niners are cursed. [00:08:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:33] Speaker C: It's the new curse. [00:08:35] Speaker D: Okay. [00:08:38] Speaker B: I have a good curse. [00:08:39] Speaker C: I. Dude, this is cursed. This is cursed. Anybody know that movie? [00:08:43] Speaker B: No. Is it Hook? No, no, no, no. [00:08:45] Speaker C: The Mummy. The Brendan Fraser. [00:08:48] Speaker D: Wow. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Great flick. Oh, and then what? Then the one with the rock too. The second one. [00:08:53] Speaker C: The score. The Scorpion. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Scorpion King. [00:08:55] Speaker C: The Scorpion King as a standalone movie was pretty good. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Solid. [00:08:58] Speaker C: I liked it. [00:08:59] Speaker D: Okay. [00:09:00] Speaker B: Solid. [00:09:00] Speaker C: They're classic movies of like old adventure. [00:09:04] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:09:04] Speaker C: What are we doing right now? Football. [00:09:07] Speaker B: Let's get back to football. Dude. I will say it was really hard watching the 49ers and gimpy need Mac Jones. Yeah. Bailed out a lot by. Consistently by Christian McCaffrey and that scares me as somebody who. He gets run into the ground sometimes quite literally. And a team that is. Ricky Pearsall is their best skill player. [00:09:28] Speaker D: Yeah. Dejuan Jennings is still out. [00:09:30] Speaker B: I think they're just struggling across the board and I. I'M selling on them as a whole. [00:09:37] Speaker D: It seems tenuous to me, but didn't bother. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Bosa did be about a 1615 win against Arizona, by the way. Arizona. Marvin Harrison. Oh, he might have had one of the worst drops I've ever seen. [00:09:51] Speaker C: It was bad. It was really bad. [00:09:53] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure your son Brantley would have caught it. Wow. He. I mean, nobody within 10 yards of him. He's probably 25 yards downfield. Hits him in the hands. He's looking at it. It's not like he took his head off. It drops it. I mean, he looked terrible. [00:10:09] Speaker D: Wow. [00:10:09] Speaker C: There was. [00:10:10] Speaker B: That's very. [00:10:11] Speaker C: The video. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Michael Crabtree. I think Michael Crabtree is actually better than him. And that's going to lead to our segment later. I want you guys thinking about who are some current players in the NFL and what are their comps? [00:10:23] Speaker D: Okay. [00:10:23] Speaker B: Who is a player in growing up that you would look and say, that's my comp. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want you guys who are. Let's do an eras tour. Is the. Yeah, Come on. Taylor Swift. Come on. [00:10:36] Speaker C: Did you see the video? I'm finally can insert myself into this conversation here of Fred Warner walking by Harrison after he did that. He, like, was going in for the tackle and then he kind of like put both of his hands behind his hit behind him and just kind of like casually strolled and like brushed his shoulder against Marvin Harris and started shaking his head because he was like, gotta catch that, buddy. [00:11:01] Speaker B: There's a great, A lot of great, like, visual effects. Like, did you see Aaron Glenn's dance on the sideline? So mad the jets lost Because I wanted that to be during a win. [00:11:12] Speaker D: I did too. That was really cool. I haven't seen him have express himself like that. That kind of passion, like that sort of. [00:11:19] Speaker C: He did it a couple times with the Lions when they would have like a big play or something. He would get like. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it was more like gorilla grunt, like, comparatively to like Man Campbell. But this was like a dance, dude. He was going full on, like 50th reunion dance. Yeah. Like I thoroughly. [00:11:38] Speaker C: It was a heck of a play. I mean, heck of a play. [00:11:42] Speaker B: A lot of great endings to the game. Commish, we appreciate you. Like I said, as a Notre Dame fan who has seen zero championships in my life, you know, you have seen some struggled years as a. As a 49er fan and you've seen some great ones. I don't have a lot of sympathy for you after having so many great ones that you've had. I Like that you're consistent. I like that he's consistent. [00:12:03] Speaker C: You had your mind tana years I'm ready for. [00:12:05] Speaker B: I was not alive for those. I want my. Oh, him. [00:12:08] Speaker C: I mean like the Niners. [00:12:09] Speaker B: I was talking about Notre Dame. Montana too. That didn't work. [00:12:12] Speaker C: Oh yeah. [00:12:13] Speaker B: But yeah, you're right, you're right. We appreciate you Commission. Let's go to our next question. It's a good one. It's one of my favorite games to play. Is he real or is he not? And it's the season. We talk about it every year. It's around the same time Doug Bloom writes in. Is he everyone ready to say Daniel Jones is safe and legit? This is I don't know what New York. What more podcast question is central to NFL than this? Or is Joe Flacco elite? [00:12:43] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:12:45] Speaker C: I. Daniel Jones. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Who. Who is he played by the way? He's got a great nickname. The Colts have played Indiana Jones. [00:12:54] Speaker C: Indiana Jones is a great, great nickname. So he's played Miami, which we have determined. Miami's sucks. They're quite bad. [00:13:02] Speaker B: Awful, awful secondary across the board for sure. [00:13:05] Speaker C: They've played Denver. Okay, Denver. [00:13:09] Speaker B: Pretty well known defense that they pretty good. They were on the California team last year. One down stretch. [00:13:16] Speaker C: A slightly above average team. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Do we give a damn credit for winning down the stretch or do you say I don't give as much credit because these are one like one point games and they could go either way and it's hard to replicate those. [00:13:29] Speaker C: I think I would rather have a team win down the stretch than fumble into the playoffs though. Like what the Steelers did. I mean, and then they just played the Titans. [00:13:40] Speaker D: The Titans now they match up against the Rams. [00:13:42] Speaker C: So I'd say the best team they've played is the Broncos. The Broncos. And they're average at best. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Do you know they're slightly above average. Let me. That hasn't been replicated since the undefeated Patriots. [00:13:57] Speaker D: It's kind of amazing. I mean this stuff is silly what's. [00:14:01] Speaker C: Happening right now, however, I just feel like the New York teams in general. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Oh, I love this. That's the New York bias conversation. [00:14:10] Speaker C: But look at all the quarterbacks that have come out of New York, whether it's the jets or the Giants. And like they're terrible. It's like Eli Manning was the only really good one over there. [00:14:23] Speaker D: That's right. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Really good. Okay. [00:14:24] Speaker D: Yeah. Remember Genoa for both of the New York teams before he had a resurgence? [00:14:30] Speaker B: Oh, Gino, that's crazy to think. [00:14:32] Speaker C: Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold with the Minnesota. And he's actually looks fine for Seattle. Like, he's going to be all right. [00:14:40] Speaker B: He always looks like he's, like, confused even after throwing a touchdown to, like, an open person like Jackson, Smith and Jigba and like, they look at his face and he's like, did I do that? [00:14:50] Speaker D: Rogers looks better. Looks better out of New York. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Totally. [00:14:54] Speaker D: He leads the NFL and touchdown passes. Right. [00:14:55] Speaker C: I just don't. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Oh, not Justin Fields. [00:14:58] Speaker C: I just don't know what it is. [00:14:59] Speaker D: Maybe next year. [00:15:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:01] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:15:02] Speaker C: The best outside of Eli Manning, the best quarterback that's come from over there, Mark Sanchez. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Ah. Mark Sanchez dominated Notre Dame so many times. [00:15:13] Speaker C: Anytime it's got anything to do with Notre Dame, that's all. [00:15:17] Speaker B: I just have pain from them. Like you're going to say we're going to talk about Reggie Bush later. Pain. I just have a lot of pain as a Notre Dame fan. But I. I really will say, Doug, as it sounds kind of like everyone's pushing and saying, well, until they play the Rams, then I'll tell you, we're gonna keep pushing this field goal post for how long and real we think Daniel Jones is. I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna go out on a limb. I'm in on Daniel Jones. Wow. I'm in on him. [00:15:45] Speaker C: I'm not. [00:15:46] Speaker D: You were in on Anthony Richardson. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:15:49] Speaker D: Maybe you're just in on the Colts. [00:15:50] Speaker C: This is. [00:15:50] Speaker B: I'm a big cold. I'm a. If you don't remember, this show is a Colts podcast. We talked about that. [00:15:57] Speaker D: Is it because the owner died? [00:15:59] Speaker B: I'm all, by the way, all for the owner dying. [00:16:02] Speaker D: Okay. [00:16:07] Speaker C: This is a very unpopular thing to say. People have been canceled for less. [00:16:12] Speaker B: I. I have until the end of the segment to bring. To take that take back. Okay. I'm not for him dying. I am for new ownership arising. How about that? [00:16:23] Speaker D: I'm with you. [00:16:24] Speaker C: Is that better? That. That's better. [00:16:25] Speaker D: That's great. [00:16:26] Speaker B: Should we go back? All right. So the pods over again. Thank you for listening. No, I'm not for him dying. I do love his daughter being on the sideline with headphones and earbuds, listening in on the play calls. And she's like, I got to know what's going on. What are they doing? What other owners are like, look, get Jerry Jones on the sideline with headphones. I would love that. [00:16:50] Speaker D: Right? [00:16:51] Speaker B: But how. Brady, say something. Oh, Tom. [00:16:53] Speaker C: Tom Brady was. [00:16:55] Speaker B: Let's talk about Tom Brady. [00:16:56] Speaker C: We never actually. We never actually. [00:16:59] Speaker B: I just get too angry about Tom Brady. [00:17:01] Speaker C: We never really talked about. Is that. Oh. Because it's kind of weird that he was allowed to be. [00:17:09] Speaker B: Are you okay? [00:17:09] Speaker C: I was burping. [00:17:12] Speaker B: There we go. [00:17:12] Speaker C: Wow. It's kind of weird that he was in the booth and he wasn't calling plays or anything. [00:17:21] Speaker B: By the way. [00:17:22] Speaker C: He looked sharp. But he is advisory role, so I don't. I think during the game they're not. He's not doing anything. I think he's just like an advisory role. That's what Pete Carroll said. [00:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah. He's not allowed to sit in these team meetings in the NFL still. I think that funny thing that's reported by ESPN basically for Fox to have to deal with. [00:17:45] Speaker C: I thought he was allowed to do. I thought he was allowed to. But he couldn't go to the practices. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Not allowed to be in team facilities and have those interviews because they are afraid. [00:17:56] Speaker C: Is it just production meetings that they are letting him in? Correct. [00:17:59] Speaker B: So he's basically just doing what Skip Bayless does. He's coming to Fox Studios to have a discussion with his people. [00:18:06] Speaker D: Okay. [00:18:07] Speaker B: Which is just kind of funny because they're. But really, they are getting Tom Brady to just be Tom Brady and talk. [00:18:12] Speaker D: Right? Sure. [00:18:13] Speaker B: It's not for him to talk about how the Rams offense is built over the weekend comparatively to the last three years. I'm sick of Tom Brady. Sick of seeing his face, sick of hearing his voice. Get him off. I want haters. I want Greg haters. Thank you. [00:18:29] Speaker D: All right, class, we need a hate Never change, man. [00:18:31] Speaker B: Can we get a hate button? [00:18:32] Speaker D: We need another button. We've got a to be fair button. We need a. A hater button. [00:18:37] Speaker B: We need a hater button. [00:18:38] Speaker C: We do need your homework because you are a hater. [00:18:41] Speaker B: All right. I'm gonna be a little bit more positive this week. [00:18:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Are we not really. [00:18:46] Speaker B: All right, our next question comes from Eric Giannunzi. Oh, wait. Just on the record. Daniel Jones. Safe. No, no. [00:18:54] Speaker C: I'm not gonna say no. [00:18:55] Speaker B: It's just record. Okay. [00:18:56] Speaker D: I'm not buying yet. [00:18:57] Speaker B: Okay. If I was gonna say the amount of people. You can't even say safe. I'm not saying legit. [00:19:03] Speaker C: But this is. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Those are different. [00:19:04] Speaker C: Can we just say I. This is what is so fun about the NFL in like the first, like several weeks. It's like nobody knows anything that's going on or what these teams are going to look like in January. [00:19:19] Speaker D: Right. [00:19:19] Speaker C: We're just so in the moment and people are. All right. We're already crowning Green Bay the best all around team in Football after two. [00:19:29] Speaker D: Weeks MVP race is Baker Mayfield, Daniel Jones and Justin Herbert. None of them are going to win it. [00:19:35] Speaker C: I just remember when they were crowning Green Bay already and I'm like. But they're kind of like offensively mid their defense happier with their loss yesterday. Oh, I was irate at Jordan. Love watching that game. I don't know how much you watched, Kyle, but I saw some really piss poor throws. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Were they your lock or something? Is that. [00:19:57] Speaker C: No, they weren't. I. We all picked Green Bay. They were his. They were his. I should have been more happy with their failures, but I was just like annoyed with them as like a team because I was like, you guys are just garbage. But. [00:20:13] Speaker B: But. [00:20:15] Speaker C: I forgot I was gonna say. [00:20:17] Speaker B: Comes from Eric G. Nunzio. Hot take. Matt Stafford is in any top 10 quarterbist quarterback list. Quarterback list of all time. [00:20:29] Speaker C: Don't give me the people. [00:20:32] Speaker D: What? The people he 10 of all time. [00:20:34] Speaker B: The people he would compete with are looking like sev on several polls are Steve Young, Terry Bradshaw, Ben Roethlisberger, Staubach, Unitis. There isn't one of those guys better than Stafford and he may be higher than 10. So guys, I'm gonna let you go to the Internet and we're just. We're gonna do one of my favorite games that podcasts do. We're Gonna rank top 10 quarterbacks of all time. All time. Go look at your list. I'm gonna take an easy one out of there for you. Okay? Number one, the guy we just talked about, Tom Brady. [00:21:11] Speaker D: Are we doing this together? [00:21:12] Speaker B: Are you doing it together? [00:21:13] Speaker D: Do you want to pause the recording and then, and then. [00:21:15] Speaker C: No, no, no, no. Let's do this live. [00:21:19] Speaker D: Like this could take a minute because we'll argue. [00:21:22] Speaker B: I don't want to get stuck on like 6 compared to 7, but I want to see if we can get 10 better that we would all agree on. [00:21:28] Speaker D: Do we agree with G that Stafford's gonna make it? [00:21:31] Speaker B: That's what we're gonna figure out. [00:21:32] Speaker C: We're gonna find that out. [00:21:33] Speaker B: It's a whole of us doing this list. [00:21:35] Speaker D: Let's try and be number two. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Montana. [00:21:37] Speaker C: Joe Montana's fine. [00:21:38] Speaker D: Okay. Joe Montana can go for sure. Patrick Mahomes is gonna go. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Okay, I'm. I'm good with that. [00:21:45] Speaker C: Peyton Manning's got to be in there somewhere. [00:21:46] Speaker D: And Peyton. So we're at four already. [00:21:49] Speaker C: There's a lot of conversation. You could put either John Elway or Dan Marino. Even Dan Marino doesn't have any Super Bowls though, does he? Let's Pause on Marino. [00:21:59] Speaker D: Let's pause. I'm putting Rogers in there. Oh, he's an all time great. There's no question about it. [00:22:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I could probably. [00:22:06] Speaker B: Definitely higher than staff if we're gonna put Roger. [00:22:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I was gonna say if we're putting Rogers in there, you got to put Farve. [00:22:12] Speaker D: Okay, so we're up to six. Confirmed with a couple. [00:22:14] Speaker C: Oh, Drew Brees. He's got. [00:22:16] Speaker D: Drew Brees has got to be in there for that career. So we're at eight. [00:22:19] Speaker B: We're at eight. We got two left. [00:22:22] Speaker D: Two left. [00:22:23] Speaker C: Stall back. Has got what? How many to his name? He's got three, doesn't he? [00:22:28] Speaker D: We've got Troy. [00:22:29] Speaker C: Aikman's got Troy Acres. [00:22:31] Speaker B: I fight on Aikman. He's a compiler. [00:22:34] Speaker D: Three Super Bowls carried by. [00:22:37] Speaker B: I would not Terry Bradshaw. [00:22:40] Speaker D: Are we talking Bradshaw? Four Super Bowls. [00:22:43] Speaker B: Bradshaw full ass on a TV show. [00:22:45] Speaker C: Bradshaw is kind of one of those guys where I feel like the team carried him more than he carried. [00:22:50] Speaker B: I couldn't tell you one thing about Terry. [00:22:51] Speaker D: You're taking Stafford over Kurt Warner. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:54] Speaker D: Okay. Okay. [00:22:56] Speaker C: There's an argument to be made for both of them, but I could. I could easily see you taking Stafford over Kurt. [00:23:02] Speaker D: What about a Steve Young? Steve Young had a great career. [00:23:06] Speaker C: He did. [00:23:07] Speaker D: He did set a lot of records in his time. Okay, let's see what we've got here. [00:23:15] Speaker B: There's Jim Kelly buffering right now live on the podcast. Right now. [00:23:20] Speaker D: You're taking Stafford over a Phillip Rivers. [00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Philip Rivers doesn't have a Super bowl win. [00:23:27] Speaker D: Okay. [00:23:28] Speaker C: And Stafford, whether we like it or whether you like it or not, he elevated a team and got a Super bowl win for them. Like he was a. He was a reason they won. [00:23:41] Speaker D: Are you taking Stafford? [00:23:42] Speaker C: What about Ben Roethlisberger? [00:23:44] Speaker D: Oh, oh. [00:23:45] Speaker C: To take the personal. Take the personal stuff out of him. [00:23:49] Speaker B: As a big potato. [00:23:51] Speaker C: But. But in his prime when he won those two Super Bowls, that dude was good. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Are we calling it so good? Are you guys in agreement? [00:23:58] Speaker C: What number is this? [00:23:59] Speaker B: Is this 9? [00:24:00] Speaker D: Roethlisberger over Stafford is a tough one. [00:24:03] Speaker C: For me over Stafford. [00:24:04] Speaker B: Saying. I'm saying we're not worried about the 1 through 10 where they rank, but are there 10 we can put above Stafford? So I think I could agree with Roethlisberger being above Stafford. [00:24:16] Speaker D: It's in the conversation. [00:24:17] Speaker C: I would. I think he's. His pedigree was quite good and he's never had a losing season. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Didn't he like the Mike Tomlin thing? [00:24:26] Speaker C: True, but he never Had. [00:24:28] Speaker B: I'm just saying it's in the same. [00:24:29] Speaker C: And his like rookie year was insane. [00:24:31] Speaker D: Yeah, that guy was nuts. [00:24:33] Speaker C: Okay, here's a question, here's a question. I got a good one because there's one name. [00:24:38] Speaker D: I'm gonna guess what you're saying. [00:24:39] Speaker C: There's one name that I'm thinking of. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Say on the count of three. [00:24:42] Speaker C: Let me finish. [00:24:43] Speaker D: We will. [00:24:43] Speaker C: There's one name that I'm thinking of that doesn't have a Super bowl win yet. But when I think of all time great quarterbacks, Lamar Jackson would be Josh Allen. [00:24:54] Speaker D: Oh, I was going to say the two. I was going to bring up the two. The two that we've got who are winning the MVP awards in recent memory. [00:25:00] Speaker C: Those two, like I don't know if they retired now. If they retire. [00:25:08] Speaker B: That's also a fun game. [00:25:11] Speaker C: If they retired now, they would not get it. Yeah, I would put Stafford over both of them if they retired now. [00:25:18] Speaker B: Stafford's had some pretty. I mean, first of all, he's had longevity. He's played on multiple teams. He's played with great quarterbacks. He's won a Super Bowl. He's the reason they won a Super Bowl. [00:25:26] Speaker D: He's 5 and 5 in the playoffs in his career. [00:25:29] Speaker B: That's a small sample size. 10 games. Yeah, I, I'm more of like an 11 game person myself, but I, I think I don't. He also has the greatest clip of him all time. Hurting his shoulder. Yeah. And he's a legend. [00:25:48] Speaker D: To me. [00:25:48] Speaker B: That's one of the greatest. Those of you that are in the car right now that had the volume up really loud. I'm so sorry about the end. Screaming. [00:25:56] Speaker C: That was probably. [00:25:58] Speaker B: I'll put, I'll put Lamar and Josh above him knowing that they wouldn't retire right now. Is there anybody on that list that you feel like. [00:26:07] Speaker D: Did you. Who were you going to say? [00:26:09] Speaker B: I was going to say Josh Allen. [00:26:11] Speaker D: Oh, I was going to say Donovan McNabb. I thought that's who you were. [00:26:15] Speaker B: You know, I heard Donovan McNabb or Michael Vick. Which one? Who would you want? [00:26:20] Speaker C: Michael? [00:26:21] Speaker B: Vic. [00:26:21] Speaker D: That's a. I'm taking the wheels. [00:26:23] Speaker B: Great. That is a tough question in terms of. [00:26:26] Speaker D: I think Vic changed the game. I think Donovan was a winner, but I think Vic was. Had a greater impact on the, on the league. But he's in the conversation. [00:26:37] Speaker B: It's something we can keep an eye on, as we like to say around here. [00:26:40] Speaker D: Do we have a consensus here? Is Stafford top 10 all time right here. [00:26:45] Speaker C: If we go Steve Young. Let's. Let's make a distinction here. We are going based on two day where they stand. We cannot predict the future for Josh. [00:26:54] Speaker B: And for Lamar, so we can't put them in. [00:26:56] Speaker D: So we can't put staffers active too. For what it's worth, he could still change his. [00:27:00] Speaker C: But. [00:27:01] Speaker B: But we're holding Mahomes right now or. [00:27:03] Speaker C: But as an active. Like I'm saying right at this moment, if I had to pick somebody to put in there as of what we know now, yeah, I would put Stafford in before I put either of those two in. But it could change. But you could say that about any future quarterback. [00:27:22] Speaker B: So like take quarterbacks that are currently. [00:27:24] Speaker D: I mean, Mahomes could not play himself out of it. Mahomes is in it. [00:27:28] Speaker B: No, Mahomes retires right now. He's top three all time. [00:27:30] Speaker D: Yeah, agreed. [00:27:32] Speaker B: And it's not close. [00:27:33] Speaker D: He could wrestle Wilson his career and he's still. Still. [00:27:36] Speaker B: That's another name. [00:27:37] Speaker C: Oh, he's not. [00:27:40] Speaker D: Debatably he might have played himself out of the hall of Fame. [00:27:42] Speaker C: He is one that debatably has like he been probably horrendous. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Sky shot throws so many Mooba. [00:27:49] Speaker C: Can we talk about how many moon. [00:27:51] Speaker B: Balls he threw yesterday? [00:27:53] Speaker C: Yesterday at like the goal line to like just score and it was like embarrassed. No, he is not. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Did we see my favorite, my favorite boy? I'm a Giants fan now. I don't know if I told you guys this. I'm a Giants fan. I love Camp Scatter Boo. [00:28:11] Speaker C: I love him. He's special, that man. I am glad I drafted him in the fantasy. I now he was on the bench, which sucks because he had like 24 points. But I, I purposely drafted him because I remember watching that and he was an animal. And I was like, this dude. [00:28:29] Speaker D: That's awesome. [00:28:29] Speaker C: He is a like Arizona. He's kind of a beast. [00:28:32] Speaker D: This Giants team is quietly acquiring some real talent on their roster. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Defensive. [00:28:37] Speaker D: They've got some good people. [00:28:38] Speaker C: They do have some good people. [00:28:39] Speaker B: Scary. [00:28:40] Speaker C: Imagine if they had a better coach. [00:28:44] Speaker B: Away from being a pretty good team. [00:28:46] Speaker D: I think and I think a quarterback, functioning quarterback away from a couple of wins. [00:28:49] Speaker B: And you see how that team gets invigorated when Jackson Dark comes in the game. I know he's. [00:28:54] Speaker C: The crowd gets invigorated. I know they just want. I think people are tired. [00:28:58] Speaker D: I think the likelihood is it'll be underwhelming. They're just desperate for some change and he's going to come out and he's going to play like, average at best, and it'll not be that exciting. [00:29:07] Speaker C: But you can. Like. [00:29:11] Speaker D: Yes. Anyway. You can do a lot of things. You can watch a game while you're. [00:29:15] Speaker B: Trying to podcast, try to score. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Sorry. Gibbs was about to score a touchdown. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Sink your televisions. Okay, guys, so keep an eye. [00:29:22] Speaker C: Oh, he's down at the goal line. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Okay, awesome. [00:29:24] Speaker D: So give it to him again. [00:29:24] Speaker B: G, you heard it here first. We don't have an answer for you, but we kind of have an answer for you. [00:29:29] Speaker C: He would be close. [00:29:30] Speaker D: He's in the conversation. He. I'm putting him in the conversation. [00:29:32] Speaker C: What I would give G is he is actively, debatably in the top 10 all time. You could debate him in easily because we couldn't land on a 10th. We had nine that we felt pretty comfortable with. He. He was in the conversation for 10. [00:29:48] Speaker D: I agree. [00:29:48] Speaker C: Now there are some old timers who'd be like, what about Jim Kelly and Brian? [00:29:52] Speaker D: Greasy. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Phil Sims, Joe Flacco. [00:30:00] Speaker D: I love the guy. [00:30:00] Speaker C: The dude by. I just. [00:30:03] Speaker B: What about him? [00:30:03] Speaker C: He is a silver fox, that man. [00:30:06] Speaker D: I'll give you that. He is a. I want to look that good. I want to look that good in a couple of years. [00:30:12] Speaker C: Comfortable with myself as a man. I'm like, that man looks great. [00:30:16] Speaker D: He's barely older than me. [00:30:20] Speaker B: You are pretty old, though. Yeah, G, we appreciate you. We appreciate you as well, because last week, guys. [00:30:27] Speaker D: Okay, bring it. [00:30:28] Speaker B: For those of you that listen to our podcast, we had a very, very contentious debate. Ian, what did you think of if you could describe last week's pod in one word? [00:30:42] Speaker C: I don't know if I have a one word. [00:30:43] Speaker B: That's why I asked you. That's the part of the question. One word. To describe Kyle and I's interaction last week would be annoying. Okay, thank you. [00:30:53] Speaker C: All right. No, because I was sitting here and I felt like you two were going at it for so long and I could occasionally. And then it would get lost in the noise of the debate. So I felt like my quite reasonable opinion, which I feel like is going to be. But pretty close to what G's is, by the way. So why don't you share what she said? [00:31:14] Speaker D: What does G have? Does G we expected to hear from. And I'm glad we heard from. We love you, G. Thank you for writing in. [00:31:19] Speaker B: G wrote a two page front and back paper. Two pages during his planning. I was actually impressed. It was really well spoken. I'm gonna let the words speak for themselves. I'm not going to read everything, but I'm going To sum a lot of it up. Right, Ian? [00:31:32] Speaker D: Right. [00:31:33] Speaker B: I felt the need to do this only because it was implied that I may be dumb or have dumb takes in sports. Choker is an athlete who consistently underperforms in high pressured situations, especially during crucial moments of a game or competition. The poor performance is not due to the lack of skill, but rather an inability to handle the anxiety and intense psychological demands of the moment. I figured I'd take Kyle's favorite to break it down. Kyle's argument isn't a football argument. It's a scientific method argument. I'll take being called dumb as long as you can accept that. It's simply saying if there isn't enough of a sample size, we can't come to that conclusion is just lazy. Yes, if we are creating clinical trials there needs to be a larger sample size. But this isn't science or mathematics. It's football. The sample size is large part. The sample size in large part is created by the quarterbacks themselves. If you are good in the regular season, you get to play in the playoffs. The system we have, we have that. The system that these players must have then be judged on. The sample size is what it is because it's what the format allows. He broke down some playoff stats and regular season stats for Aaron Roziers. He always spells Rodgers incorrect correctly for us. So that was R O J E R S. Rodgers stats are pretty close playoff and regular season. But in the wins his numbers were inflated and in his losses they were well below average. His regular season consistently was much higher overall. Therefore it can be said that he performs at a lower level in the playoffs. If wins and losses aren't a quarterback stat, then you can just throw away this argument altogether. But obviously they are because people call quarterbacks jokers when they lose. In Brady's first Super bowl he was pedestrian and his numbers and most of them are down from regular season performances. However, when it came to the playoffs, he won. That's what matters. You are right, Kyle. This is the part. You are right, Kyle. It's the most important position in the game and therefore demands the best performance in the playoffs. And some guys just can't rise when called on. I could have broke down Lamar who's played playoff performances that have been low and much lower than his MVP caliber play. But I only have so much time in a day. You really. You're real hung up. Your real hang up is you don't. You guys don't like being called chokers. You proved it by saying those exact words when you brought up James Harden. I love that James Harden's our deciding factor. There are jokers in every sports and the playoffs usually reveal these guys. Look at the definition. It doesn't mean they are bad players but. But they clearly don't rise to the occasion and in many times shrink. I love the show and the banter, but let's get it straight guys. Choke Harden, Lamar Rodgers, a rod and so on and so on. Some guys might say Jared Goff choked last year because his performance was below average. However, in his small sample size of the playoffs, it would lean more towards him being clutch than choke. Save the sample size debate for the pandemic, for the next pandemic and stick to the sports podcast. You guys do that really well. [00:35:02] Speaker D: Well, I'll take the compliment in the end. That's really sweet. [00:35:05] Speaker B: That was really a sandwich. [00:35:07] Speaker C: It was like the really notable thing that he said in there was what I was trying to convey last week, which was. And why I was tracking with Kyle. Because it is very scientificy to be more about like this, the sample size and the data set that you have and to like make. In order to make like an accurate and to be taken seriously, you need large numbers to be able to back the claim up. And like certain players like Kirk Cousins, five games is not really a lot of games to really make any determining factor. But it does feel like a. A hard argument to have then because it's like. But there's like a. Like it's like the eye test, you know, like you watch a player and some of them just like in the playoffs don't pass the eye test. And so you can't always pinpoint what it is. You can't always pinpoint like are they a choker? But it's like ah, but they'd like well why does it always feel like they do this or they. It's kind of like with Josh Allen or even Lamar for that matter in the playoffs it's just like always like ah, like why, why is it there that you guys are having this weird moment? [00:36:24] Speaker B: So do you think the unexplainable just gets classified as choker? Like how coach of the year is basically we were all wrong about your team and we're going to give the coach all the credit. [00:36:33] Speaker D: Sure. [00:36:33] Speaker C: Yeah, kind of. [00:36:34] Speaker D: Kyle, it's a little bit of what I was saying last week is just like. I mean I was trying to bring a hot take to the show, trying to spice things up. I'm trying to. I like something so I'm saying I'm. [00:36:43] Speaker C: Like going, did you like it? [00:36:44] Speaker D: Oh, if you, if somebody underperforms in a high pressure game in the playoffs, you know, and you just say that they're a joker, that's. That's kind of lazy. So I'm going to kind of stand by that. Throwing, throwing labels around. Like we as fans in the sports media throw labels around a little bit. Like we're a little cavalier with those, a little haphazard and not really a lot of consideration. But that's really not the point. I want, I want to really thank G for the thoughtful message coming into us and everybody else listening. Feel free to send us your diatribes and take difference with our takes, especially when we have the courage to show up with really spicy ones. There were a few things that I thought of mulling over this over the weekend, and I should apologize to you guys and our listeners for coming. Not as prepared as I wanted to be for that, and I think that kind of stirred things up. But a few thoughts. First, I really want to emphasize how much I'm not crazy in saying that choking doesn't exist. There's never a part of my claim. There's no. I was not trying to say anything even like that. Like that. There's no such thing as choking. Yeah, it's real. I mean, I've choked and pick up basketball games and stuff. Like choking is just like, it's something that does happen. There's a lot of one off games where we could point to either a quarterback or a coach or any player on the field or in any sport and say, I'm calling that a choke. I think that this moment really got to their head. And Sam Darnold last at the end. [00:38:31] Speaker C: Of the last year, I think is a great example of what choking looks like. [00:38:35] Speaker B: Keep going, Kyle. I feel like I want to give you your space on this. [00:38:38] Speaker D: Thank you. So choking does happen. It is real. And what I was kind of taking difference with much more is applying a label to a player over, you know, the tenure of their professional career and saying that, you know, they are a choker, you know, so we're getting a little bit pedantic, I think, with the point here, and this is part of the fun of sports talk, that we can just like debate these silly semantic things. But I did want to make it known that I do think that joking exists, but I was trying to make a grand statement and saying the NFL, if you're really looking for someone that you can confidently, inarguably apply a team consistent choker label to it's hard to find. It's going to be a lot of debate if you can even find any based on the argument of small sample size and general circumstances. So continuing with a couple other points that I didn't really get around to making last time at least very well and I actually have some kind of like numbers to refer to this to kind of make, make one go for it. [00:39:47] Speaker C: I love numbers. [00:39:48] Speaker D: One of those is that this is kind of. I was thinking about this as listening to what G wrote in how much the regular season stats do include weaker opponents. And so I've looked at most major quarterbacks I know I've run some numbers on this and overwhelmingly most of them perform worse in the playoffs. There's, it's a pretty rare exception that a quarterback plays better in the playoffs and that should come as no surprise to any of us because they're going up against tougher opponents. Their regular season numbers are always inflated because they are playing against the weaker teams. And so again there's very rare exceptions. Tom Brady is no exception. His playoff numbers are worse than his regular season numbers. That's true for all the greats. So when we're looking at like regular state regular season stats versus playoff stats have to take into account like it's always going to look a little worse. One critical thing that I really think is important to keep in mind is when you go so far as to state that every down game in the playoffs for a quarterback is a choke, I kind of find that to be. It's, it's a little lazy. It's also kind of insulting to defenses. They do exist too. Just like choking exists. Defenses exist in the playoffs. They do play a role. And so if you point to any one off performance and say the reason that that game, I mean like whatever who it was quarterback choked that game away, that erases the efforts of the defense that may just have showed up, brought their A game an awesome plan and become the kryptonite to whatever this great quarterback. And this has happened to every quarterback. Every quarterback that has had some playoff experience has come up against a defense that's got their number. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Would you say similar to like Peyton Manning wasn't a joker. Ty Law just had his number for a few years. [00:41:52] Speaker D: Yeah, this could be a good example. Like some of these defenses are playing against these quarterbacks teams in the regular season. They're getting familiar with them. They're showing up in January or February with the ultimate game plan and they're bringing their best. So you're going to face a Lot of great defenses in the postseason. Sometimes they show up extremely well prepared and do their best. So if you say it's because the quarterback choked, that erases the efforts of the defense. And sometimes that's the real factor. Sometimes that's what happened. If you go up against the Legion of Boom and you have a bad. [00:42:27] Speaker B: Game, it's a great example for it, for sure. [00:42:29] Speaker D: Is that really choking? Are you going to say that quarterback choked because the Legion of Boom beat him? I don't know. For me, that's a stretch. So if you're gonna point to every single down game, keep in mind defense does exist. [00:42:43] Speaker B: So you're saying more that just the label of choking and someone being a joker really takes the effort and the. Out of the analysis that is required to talk about these in. In an intelligent way. [00:42:56] Speaker D: That is true. I want to look at the matchups. So I got some. [00:43:02] Speaker B: Some numbers for you that are kind of interesting today. So just be careful. [00:43:05] Speaker C: Defense wins championship games. I just want to be very clear. [00:43:09] Speaker D: Right. What I'm doing is defending a point here. [00:43:11] Speaker B: That's what he. He lives and dies by that. [00:43:14] Speaker C: That's my Live my life a quarter mile of a defense. [00:43:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:43:19] Speaker B: Family. [00:43:20] Speaker D: I looked. I looked all the way back for the quarterbacks that G brought up for Rogers and Lamar. And one thing that I wanted to take a look at, and I'm coming into this again, trying to be objective here, trying to just look at, see what. What really happened. [00:43:39] Speaker B: You love Rogers. [00:43:41] Speaker D: Okay, that aside, let's. Let's set that. Let's put a pin in that. [00:43:44] Speaker B: I'll pin it. [00:43:45] Speaker D: Let's put a pin in that, man. [00:43:48] Speaker C: That's the pin. The. [00:43:50] Speaker D: It occurred to me that if we really want to look like. Scrutinize postseason performance often you could say like in. One of the things I was doing last week was in my data crunching, I was comparing postseason performance stats to regular season performance, but only against good teams. So it was a little more apples to apples. In both cases, we're taking out the games against bad teams and we're only looking at games against good teams. [00:44:18] Speaker B: Similar to what G was talking about. Right. Right. Yeah. [00:44:21] Speaker D: This thing, this time I took it even further. I compared the same team. So you play this. You play this team in the postseason, and then you also played them in the regular season, same year. And I'm comparing the results there. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Let's hear it. [00:44:38] Speaker D: Because if your logic stands that if you're playing the exact same team, you should play relatively. I mean, the results you should see Similar results. Is that right? [00:44:47] Speaker C: You would imagine and it would follow. [00:44:49] Speaker B: It's hard to play hard to beat a good team twice. [00:44:51] Speaker D: It is hard. But it would follow that if you have a regular season result that's very good for you and then you play that same team in the postseason, it's very bad. That looks bad on you and that, you know, so critical fans could then say, oh, it choked in the postseason, because that's literally the only difference. It's the same opponent, but your performance was way worse. Then you could kind of start to throw around these derogatory labels. So I looked at Rodgers and Jackson. Let's look at Aaron Rodgers first. He's 11 and 10 in the playoffs. I looked at his losses and I found this pretty interesting. We're talking 10 different playoff losses. You want to guess how many of those seasons he faced that team in the regular season that he ultimately lost to in the playoffs? You don't have to think about it. [00:45:47] Speaker B: Every one of them. [00:45:48] Speaker D: It was all of them. It was all 10 seasons. This was actually very convenient for the numbers. Every single one of those seasons where he lost a game in the playoffs, he had previously played that same exact team in the regular season. So Aaron Rodgers is one of the best examples we have in NFL of looking at the difference between playing one opponent in the regular season and play that opponent again in the postseason. And again, we're only looking at the losses. We're not looking at the wins here. 11 wins. But I didn't, didn't consider those. So for every one of those seasons, we can look at the numbers and compare them. And I went through it. I would love to read this. I think you guys don't want me to. I think you would not enjoy this. I would love to read this to. [00:46:30] Speaker B: You, but I'd love for you to summarize it. [00:46:32] Speaker D: He had playoff games in 2021, 2020, 20, 19, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11 and 09. Those are the years in which he appeared in the playoffs, ultimately lost, and had previously played that same opponent in that season. Now, how best to summarize this? Ultimately, in most cases, the results are pretty similar, highly comparable. There is a an example or two that would support the choking point. A couple where the results were worse in the playoffs. For example, 2011 packers lost to the Giants in the postseason, but beat them in the regular season. And Rogers performance was considerably worse from a 106 passer rating down to a 78.5 and considerably worse than the other dimensions. And that is kind of the Only one that is of note. Maybe 2021, losing to the Niners in the postseason. His numbers went down a little bit, but not dramatically. All the other of the 10 years ultimately look either the same or better in the postseason. And these are in losses to the same exact team. For example, 2020, remember, they played against the Buccaneers, right? His worst game of the season, of the regular season was against the Buccaneers. Terrible game for Aaron Rodgers. 160 passing yards, no touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 35.4 passer rating. Worst game of the season, worst game of several seasons. Then they played him again in the playoffs, and he, Rodgers, ultimately had a Great game over 300 passing yards, three touchdowns, one pick, 101.6 passer rating. That's a solid outing in a competitive game where they went pretty much down to the wire with the Buccaneers and lost, and the Buccaneers went on to win that Super Bowl. But that's an example of going from your worst game of the season in the regular season to one of your best in the postseason, significantly increasing your output, even though the outcome was a loss. That happened in 2019. Basically the same result. Lost to the Niners both times. Played better in the postseason, in 16 to the Falcons. Comparable, a little better in the regular season. The Cardinals in 2015, better in the postseason. And this kind of goes on and on year after year where it's either a similar result or a better result in the playoffs. And most of the time the win outcome is the same. So that's Aaron Rodgers again. I would love to show you all the numbers. It's interesting. It was interesting to me, but that kind of suggests to me that even in these losses, the man has been performing better in the postseason than in the regular season against exactly the same opponents. Okay, Lamar Jackson. Now I'll try and be. I'll try and be accommodating here. I think that Lamar Jackson is one who has the greatest potential to earn this label over the course of his career. I am not going to really fully get on board with anybody saying he's fully earned it yet, although I think some critical fans would jump on that. And I'm going to say he could still earn it in his career because he's not off to a solid start. I think looking at his 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 playoff losses, he Only two times of those five played the same team in the regular season and the postseason. And so in those results, 2024 lost to the Bills in the playoffs, but beat them in the regular season. Played better in the regular season, a Little worse. Still a good game. Still 254, two touchdowns, one pick, 114 passer rating. Still a pretty decent game. That's not a bad quarterback outing in the playoffs, but it was worse than his 135 passer rating in the regular season when they beat the Bills. So you could say performance went a little bit down, but not anything dramatic. The 2018 loss to the Chargers, that is a pretty good example. I think he had a pretty solid game against the Chargers when he beat them in the regular season and lost to them in the playoffs with a pretty pedestrian outing. [00:51:23] Speaker C: He lost to the Chargers in the playoffs in 2018. [00:51:27] Speaker D: Wow. Yeah. The other losses are not good, but they don't have a regular season comp because those are two teams that the Ravens did not play in the regular season. So he lost to the Titans in 2019, the Bills in 2020, the Chiefs in 2023. And in each of those games, I think pretty objectively you would probably say those were bad games, especially by just about any any quarterback. [00:51:53] Speaker C: The Titans game was quite bad. But that if I recall, was his first. Wasn't that his first rookie year too? [00:52:01] Speaker D: No, that was the second. His second season, second season if I recall. [00:52:04] Speaker C: But that was his first season. [00:52:05] Speaker D: 2018 was his rookie season, but he oh he started playing late in the season and played their playoff game in 2019 was his first MVP and the that lost to the Titans. [00:52:18] Speaker C: It was like absurd, like the all unanimous Lamar one and then he got embarrassed in the playoffs. [00:52:25] Speaker D: Yeah, that was not a. Not a good look. So that's three playoff appearances in a row that the performance was pretty poor, pretty bad quarterback outings. So I'd say he's on track to earn that title as probably the biggest, the NFL's biggest playoff joker if somebody wants to give it out to him again. As of today, I'm still going to. [00:52:51] Speaker B: Say add as weak. [00:52:52] Speaker D: That's weak if you're going to give it to him now. [00:52:54] Speaker C: But I wouldn't give it to him. [00:52:55] Speaker D: He could earn it. But he's going to be in the playoffs a lot in his career. [00:52:59] Speaker C: But this is what I mean by like the eye test. Like I remember watching him play against the Titans and look bad. I remember watching him lose against the Bills and there was some he didn't play great. [00:53:12] Speaker D: Right. [00:53:12] Speaker C: And then I remember watching him lose against the Chiefs and being like, like. [00:53:17] Speaker D: What are you doing? [00:53:18] Speaker C: Right, like forcing it. And so that's a couple games in. [00:53:22] Speaker D: There where I'm with you. I'm not disappointed. [00:53:25] Speaker C: He's the only one, right. Because you could easily point to Mark Andrews and Zay Flowers in both of those, the Baltimore and KC games as, like, equally contributing to their losses. But he was definitely. He's. The eye test isn't great right now. [00:53:42] Speaker D: It's not. And I think he's got to do something about that. But he's said in press conferences before and asked about this, like, and I thought it, it does reflect what we've seen. That, like, no, this is me and it's on me and I get too amped up and I'm getting too excited in these games and I'm seeing things before they happen that aren't. And you could call this, like, succumbing to the pressure a little bit. But what it looks has looked like in some of his postseason games, my remark is that it looks like he's getting a little too. He got worked up, a little too out of control, a little too unpredictable, a little too forcing it unnecessarily, playing too aggressive at times. [00:54:19] Speaker C: That Kansas City game specifically, I remember he was getting like, worked up on the sideline. Like, he was visibly, like trying real. [00:54:28] Speaker D: Tight window throws right. Well. [00:54:29] Speaker C: And then he was like, kind of like exasperated all over the place. Almost looked like he was like, like there was like, go. [00:54:38] Speaker B: Like another audio part that listeners love. [00:54:41] Speaker C: Is I don't like, know how to visually like, how to audio describe the visual of what he was doing. [00:54:47] Speaker B: Inflatable arm flaring too, man. [00:54:48] Speaker C: But he was like, very like, exasperated. Like a child was when something doesn't go their way. [00:54:54] Speaker B: Having a temper tantrum in the, kind of in the cart. [00:54:57] Speaker C: Like, if you go back and watch that game and obviously it's. You have to watch probably the whole game to see those moments. [00:55:04] Speaker D: Right? [00:55:05] Speaker C: He did do that. [00:55:06] Speaker D: Yeah. There's a final point that I want to leave on. This is a little thing, but this is kind of just one of the reasons why I'm not necessarily going to hate on you or say you can't call people jokers, but this is one of the reasons why I just personally don't buy it. I just am not really a believer. And it's the fact that by the time a player is starting in an NFL playoff game, they've already spent just a buttload of time under their bright lights. Like, they're not a stranger to it to get to an NFL playoff game. They've already won state titles in high school. They've all played in conference championships and bowl games in college football. Every regular season is watched by Literally millions of people and matters way more than individual games in all other major sports. By the time you get to an NFL playoff game, you've spent so much time under the big lights, you prepared for this. And I'm not really buying that a lot of these players, when there's just slightly more pressure than normal, the lights are slightly brighter, the audience is slightly bigger, the pressure is slightly. I'm just not buying that that has a real demonstrable impact on player performance. If you want to, this is like unprovable. But if you want to say, fine, if you think that that's it. If you think the lights are too bright, the crowd is too big. To me, I'm saying the crowd was big last week. The lights were bright last week. This is just slightly brighter and slightly bigger. You think you're telling me that they're not performing at their regular level because of this. [00:56:50] Speaker C: And some of these, some of these games, even in the regular season, are blown way up. You know, like, you get Sunday night games against two teams. Like, look at the Ravens and the Bills so far this year. That was what, Week one. That game was hyped beyond measure. [00:57:05] Speaker D: I know. And it went down to the, down to the wire. [00:57:08] Speaker C: And I don't know if you could argue that he choked that game away, but again, you know, you could. [00:57:16] Speaker D: I mean, if you win, if you want to, if you want to say that like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. That's fine. [00:57:20] Speaker B: I like your take that. It takes away from the defense. I think that's something that our podcast in. In general, defense is hard to analyze and so is offensive line play. That's why we focus on quarterbacks. Right. So I, I really. [00:57:32] Speaker D: Sometimes they show up famously. Belichick came up with defensive game plans for their opponents in the postseason and it, yeah. [00:57:39] Speaker C: Made their way this weekend. [00:57:40] Speaker D: But no, it's. [00:57:41] Speaker C: Brady, this weekend actually is a really good example of that because I think the Cleveland Browns made the packers look bad offensively. You know, like, like you're not giving enough credit to the Browns by saying Jordan Love just had a bad game when he did have a bad game. Yeah, but you could. There is. It's always. They have a bad game because the defense made him have a bad game. He threw arid throws because he was under pressure for like 40% of the game. [00:58:12] Speaker D: Right. [00:58:12] Speaker C: Just for a quarterback, that's a long. That's a lot of snaps to be under pressure, so. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate you bringing that back. And listeners, just so you know, Kyle and I had like a 40 minute conversation after our podcast to make sure we were good, we hugged in the parking lot. We're all good. Kyle, we good? High five. [00:58:30] Speaker D: We're great. [00:58:32] Speaker B: Great job. I appreciate it, G. I also appreciate you bringing the heat back because it was a spicy take. That's what it's about. If we wanted to just say, like, we think Pat Mahomes is top five quarterback and have a debate about that, we could do that. Nobody's going to listen to it. Nobody wants to. Instead, we want to hear about how Justin Matson doesn't have the long, luscious hair that I once thought he did, and he will not make the bet to shave his head for me shaving my beard. [00:58:56] Speaker D: Oh, man. Justin, come on. [00:58:57] Speaker B: I know, Kyle. I'm going to make an executive decision. Ian, make an executive decision. We're going to skip my weekly segment. I want to give it a little bit more time to marinate it. We're already 59 minutes into this pod. We're going to do it next week instead. We're going to have Kyle's rebuttal be this weekly segment and today. [00:59:15] Speaker D: Wow. [00:59:16] Speaker C: The reboot. [00:59:17] Speaker B: I know. We're just gonna. [00:59:18] Speaker C: The reboot. [00:59:19] Speaker B: We're gonna finish on our picks, and we're gonna wish you guys a great week. So last week, Ian, what happened? Your picks. [00:59:29] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. [00:59:30] Speaker B: They weren't both of us. Not so great. Kyle. Back in the mix, buddy. [00:59:33] Speaker C: I was so mad about the Rams. I was. Out of all the picks, I was the most hyped because I'm really high on the Rams, comparatively to you two. I mean, I have them going to the Super Bowl. I was, like, really high on them. So when they, like, were about to kick that winning game, I was like, ah, I nailed that. And I still feel really good about the Rams even though they lost. I just wanted to say that I felt really good about that. [00:59:58] Speaker B: I'm glad you did. [00:59:59] Speaker D: I think Ian has a commanding lead in our pickup. [01:00:03] Speaker C: I don't want to talk. [01:00:03] Speaker D: I think it's pretty much in the bag. [01:00:06] Speaker B: No, I think he's already won. [01:00:07] Speaker D: I think it's a shoe in end of the season. You want to do. You want to go do steak dinner this week? Maybe it's convenient. I know it's already. [01:00:14] Speaker C: I don't want to do this. This is like talking about how, like, the packers are the best team in football. [01:00:20] Speaker D: Yeah. And the Lions have got this game, too, right? [01:00:23] Speaker C: Yeah. For those of you why I haven't talked a lot, it's because I've been watching the game. [01:00:30] Speaker B: And we thought you were just respectfully letting Kyle talk. [01:00:33] Speaker D: No, it couldn't be that. [01:00:34] Speaker C: I would never. I always want to interrupt. [01:00:39] Speaker B: All right, let's talk about our locks, guys. Our lock game guarantee of the week. I got Monday Night Football Denver over the burrow Less Bengals. Jake Browning. [01:00:48] Speaker C: They look so bad. [01:00:51] Speaker B: We never talked about how awful Atlanta looked. But I'm gonna skip ahead and. [01:00:57] Speaker C: They never crossed. They never crossed to the 30 yard line. [01:01:01] Speaker B: Do you want to hear a fun story? [01:01:01] Speaker D: Are you kidding me? [01:01:03] Speaker B: All holy. I got a great. Did you know that Michael Penck is 0 and 4 when opponents score more than 7 points? I'm gonna say that. [01:01:12] Speaker C: Oh yeah? [01:01:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Michael Penix is 04 when opponents score more than seven points against him. That's a riddle. [01:01:19] Speaker C: Ouch. [01:01:19] Speaker B: That's a riddle. There. There's some really fun stats that came along but for now I'm just. I already gave you my upset. My. My lock. Kyle, how about you? [01:01:30] Speaker D: You're upset. [01:01:31] Speaker B: Oh, you've got yourself. [01:01:34] Speaker D: I'm calling the jets for upsetting the Dolphins. I think Aaron Glenn's going to get his first win and I want that for him. [01:01:41] Speaker B: Sunday Night Football. Sunday night prime time. [01:01:43] Speaker C: Who's your. Did we do locks yet? You did your lock. [01:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:46] Speaker C: So what's your lock? You might as well do both of them. [01:01:51] Speaker D: Yeah, I lost my last lock last week and. Lost your last lock. I lost my lock last week and this week. This week I. I'm calling the Bills over the Saints, who look like a train wreck. [01:02:03] Speaker C: The Saints look so bad. [01:02:05] Speaker D: It's. It's terrible. It's cute. All right, what do you got? [01:02:09] Speaker C: I'm gonna take as we were doing upsets first. [01:02:13] Speaker B: Both of them. Both. [01:02:14] Speaker C: I mean, I know you guys have already both done yours. Should I just drag this and just like talk a little bit about each game? [01:02:20] Speaker D: Okay. [01:02:21] Speaker C: Okay. [01:02:21] Speaker B: Okay. Good. [01:02:22] Speaker D: Some filler. [01:02:23] Speaker C: My lock. Chargers over the Giants. I love me some good Scatter Boo. But the Giants are kind of a train wreck otherwise. They have a lot of talent there. [01:02:33] Speaker B: Scatter Boo Boo Bear. [01:02:34] Speaker D: I'm not ready to talk about them yet, but the Chargers could be a team. We talk a lot about this season. [01:02:39] Speaker C: They could. They're looking good. First three games. [01:02:41] Speaker D: Is that Harbaugh effect, like going in earlier than expected? [01:02:45] Speaker C: I did. This is kind of nonsense to say that earlier than expected. They went to the playoffs last year. [01:02:50] Speaker B: Man, but man, he looked bad. [01:02:51] Speaker C: My man. [01:02:52] Speaker D: I'm used to it. I mean I. I've just. Just. It took a few years at Michigan. [01:02:59] Speaker C: It took. It all the way to the very end. And some debate that very end sometimes, too. [01:03:04] Speaker B: Let's not some, let's not. [01:03:06] Speaker C: Chargers over the Giants. That feels relatively safe. And then my upset, I just, I, I think I just looked at games that were looked like they could be close. Did I pick against them? [01:03:18] Speaker B: No, I didn't. [01:03:20] Speaker C: No, I did. The Vaders. The Vaders go. [01:03:25] Speaker B: Vaders go over the Bears. [01:03:30] Speaker C: Sorry. Ben Johnson. You got your first win. Congratulations. But it's time for the vetas. [01:03:35] Speaker B: That's a bingo. [01:03:36] Speaker C: That's a bingo. [01:03:39] Speaker B: Watch that movie this weekend. [01:03:40] Speaker C: All right. [01:03:41] Speaker B: Anything else we want to leave for our listeners? [01:03:44] Speaker C: No. [01:03:45] Speaker B: Kyle? [01:03:47] Speaker D: No. [01:03:52] Speaker B: Well, thank you for listening to the pod. We appreciate your weekly questions, you sending things to us and more importantly, for being a great listener and hearing all of our diatribes, our stats, our sheets, our muffled wrappers in the background. You can hear some right now if you heard those. And you're all for it. You're a true fan. For those of you that this is your first time, let me just say it gets better from here. And by that I mean I love you. I hope you have a great rest of your week. Make sure you tell the people that you know you love them. Them. And most of all, make sure you take care of yourself and let your dog out when they need to go potty. Have a great rest of your Tuesday. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. [01:04:52] Speaker C: The Lions.