Wk 2: Ben Johnson's Revenge Game

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Point after show with Kyle Maurer, Marshall heslav, and Ian DeWitt. This is the show where the guys attempt to pick the winners of the weekly NFL games along with some healthy debate about current topics. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:00:25] Speaker C: Isn't that what they say in the Dark Knight Rises? [00:00:31] Speaker D: We get a lot of feedback for this show and people just love the sound effects and the noises, the grunts and the groans in the beginning. That's really what books are. Listeners. [00:00:39] Speaker C: I feel like you're serious. [00:00:43] Speaker D: No, I hear it all the time. Yeah. The reason I kept listening is because it was just incoherent babble. Shut up. We can't always just, like, jump into a one liner. A catchy jingle joke. Well, this isn't the Make It Nerdy show crossover. [00:01:04] Speaker B: All right, let's do our question of the of the week. Guys, we got a question. I need your answer. The best song of all time in Europe. [00:01:12] Speaker C: Not the best song. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Oh, sorry. [00:01:15] Speaker C: The perfect song. [00:01:17] Speaker B: That is different. [00:01:18] Speaker C: It is different because, you know, there is an answer to this question. Oh, I've thought about this. Actually, I've thought about this. [00:01:26] Speaker B: To yourself. [00:01:26] Speaker C: Okay, I will. I've thought about this quite a lot because. [00:01:32] Speaker B: Eloquent question. [00:01:35] Speaker C: No, beforehand. The reason why I wrote this question is because I have thought about this a lot. [00:01:40] Speaker D: I'm dying to know. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Because I heard this song and I've always liked the song, but the more I've listened to the song, I'm like, oh, my gosh. This song has literally everything. Okay, You Can Call Me out by Paul Simon. [00:01:57] Speaker D: Wow. [00:02:05] Speaker C: It's got a good beat. It's got, like a really cheerful kind of tone. It's got trumpets, it's got whistling. It's got na na na. [00:02:15] Speaker D: It's got a sick bass line. [00:02:17] Speaker C: It's got a sick bass line. It's got. A memorable music video with Chevy Chase. Is. Is a perfect song. [00:02:26] Speaker D: The complete package. [00:02:27] Speaker C: It's everything. Every time I listen to it, I'm always in awe at how perfect that song is. Oh, it slaps that album by. We've talked about this album before. Graceland. Phenomenal album. [00:02:45] Speaker D: It's my favorite. Undisputed diamond on the soles of her shoes. [00:02:49] Speaker C: Another fantastic song. So good. [00:02:53] Speaker D: Yes. Everything about that front to back. I listened to that, the whole thing, and it just moved me like no other album ever has. [00:03:00] Speaker C: It's good. It's a good album. [00:03:02] Speaker D: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I will hear no negativity about it, though. I doubt anyone would speak any. [00:03:08] Speaker C: Totally. [00:03:08] Speaker D: Like, nobody would. Nobody would But I will hear none of it. [00:03:11] Speaker B: I don't know a single song by Paul Simon. [00:03:14] Speaker C: Yes, off the top of your head is fine. But Tarzan. Tarzan is like, no, that's not. That's Phil Collins. Oh, no, that's right. You're right. Phil Collins. The moment you said that it was Phil, I was like, oh, you're right. You're right. You're right. That was a mistake. Mistakes were made just now. I apologize. Rewind it. Cut it. [00:03:35] Speaker D: I know. You were building up so much medical musical cred after show. [00:03:39] Speaker B: I'm kidding. It's been a while since I've done that. By the way, cutting off our show to fake an intro again. Kyle, you like to think of yourself as a music savant. You make fun of my music. [00:03:51] Speaker C: How much I make fun of your music? [00:03:53] Speaker D: Come on. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's movies music. You're like, you haven't much. It's probably before 2007. You haven't seen anything. [00:03:59] Speaker C: I do question your music day sometimes. I've heard who you listen to. I'm. [00:04:04] Speaker D: I respect that you. Got you. He's like a R and B guy, and I respect you like your things. [00:04:10] Speaker B: I mean, like, don't yuck my. [00:04:12] Speaker D: I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I think you, like. You're really deep into the particular styles that you're into, and you've got your favorite artist. That's fine. That's not really my. I like hip hop. I like rap, and I mean, rock and metal and punk and all that stuff. And so those kind of genres have always resonated with me. But I. Sometimes I tease you about, like, being, like, straight up top 40, only referencing, like, the top hits. [00:04:37] Speaker B: But go ahead, give us your thoughts about. [00:04:39] Speaker D: I'm tickled with Ian's choice because that's, like, a deep one for me. That's, like, very, very special to me. As good. As good a pull as you can get. I don't think you could have mentioned something that would have, like, resonated more deeply with me. Songs that I've felt like, this is perfection. This is a perfect song before. Gosh, I don't know. I'm gonna be probably a super basic. I don't know. Let it be is always, like, seemed without flaw to me. Ball and Biscuit by the White Stripes. Just phenomenal. Magical masterpiece. Unholy Confessions by Adventure Unbold. Flawless. [00:05:18] Speaker C: Enter Sandman's up there too. [00:05:21] Speaker D: That's pretty good. But it's like. It's still, like, just like a top 10 Metallica hit for Me? [00:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:26] Speaker D: You know, we'd. I don't know, we'd have to do something like Sanitarium or Fade to Black or something like that for me to say, like, this is a. There's a track with. That has. That's got it all. I don't know, the entire Greatest Showman soundtrack or like Hamilton. Yeah. [00:05:45] Speaker C: I will say there's one song on Hamilton that I'm like. Every time I hear it, I'm like, that is up there. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Say no to this. [00:05:54] Speaker C: No. In the room where it happens like that. [00:05:57] Speaker D: Yeah, that's your. That's. You were playing that. [00:06:00] Speaker C: I want to be in the room. [00:06:03] Speaker D: Oh, that's so good. You know, he just. Let's just reprise his role on Broadway. [00:06:08] Speaker B: You're on a first name basis with him. [00:06:11] Speaker D: Well, you know, we go back. We go back, we go back and he's going back. Um, so that's. That's pretty special. I mean, everything on that, like, hits for me. I mean, I. I don't know where to go with this. There's a lot that just, like, hits hard and seems like, not be improved. [00:06:29] Speaker C: Off the top of your head. Just like, pick one. [00:06:31] Speaker D: Then a song that is perfect. Let me think. Marshall, you go. [00:06:39] Speaker B: You're kidding me right now? [00:06:41] Speaker C: He's given you plenty of time to think on your song, so you should have. [00:06:44] Speaker B: I just figured a music savant like you would be very specific of what his answer. [00:06:48] Speaker C: I actually sometimes that mute. Like, when people are really into music, it gets harder to figure that out. [00:06:54] Speaker D: All right, it's wop. [00:06:57] Speaker C: Wap. [00:06:59] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Google it. Later, Ian. My answer is I'm gonna go. I like the way you move Outcast. [00:07:10] Speaker D: Okay. [00:07:10] Speaker C: The way. [00:07:11] Speaker D: Wow. I like that one. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Outcast. They're just nostalgia there. [00:07:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:07:17] Speaker B: All right. It takes me back to PGA Tour 2008 on my PC. [00:07:20] Speaker D: Oh, man. [00:07:21] Speaker C: Wow. [00:07:22] Speaker D: Yeah, I like that. That makes me. That makes me think my hip hop heads. [00:07:26] Speaker B: If I go current, I gotta go Drake and pick a little jungle. Maybe a little love Yours by J. Cole. [00:07:31] Speaker C: I do. [00:07:32] Speaker D: Welcome to Atlanta by Jermaine Dupree and Ludacris is my all time favorite rap song. Welcome to Atlanta. That is a banger of. [00:07:43] Speaker C: Have a slight love for Hotline Bling. I think it's kind of a fun song. Hotline Blank. And I always, like, kind of been like. Every time I've listened to, I'm like, yeah, man. Yeah. Okay. [00:07:57] Speaker B: For the people not watching in our studio, in the camera that we have. [00:08:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:01] Speaker B: Ian was just moving silently to an audio medium. [00:08:05] Speaker D: Yeah. That's right. I also I like that video of Gruden in his studio listening to. [00:08:10] Speaker B: You ever heard of Migos? Migos? [00:08:15] Speaker C: I will say the Immigrant song is. [00:08:18] Speaker B: Like another easy one, only good because of Jack Black. [00:08:22] Speaker C: No, that song like slaps even before Jack Black. But they have a a second song that I think is better. It's called Gallows Pole. [00:08:31] Speaker D: Okay. [00:08:31] Speaker C: Oh, they get that banjo going so good. Highly recommend about it, man. Highly recommend, man. [00:08:38] Speaker B: Let's hear from some of our listeners. [00:08:40] Speaker C: All right, back to football. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Addison DeWitt and Jamie Hessel both write in similar questions as in DeWitt writes in is it it's early, but how do you feel about Ben Johnson and Eric Glenn? Did those two make the right call? Also, Goffs sucks under pressure. This is worrying. And Jamie Hussle writes in is the beef between Ben Johnson and Dan Campbell real or folks making too much of it? Saw the meme for those that don't watch Ted Lasso, that it was Ted Lasso and the other head coach who leaves to go in the elevator together was Ben Johnson and Dan Campbell together, which really kind of made me go for the Ted Lasso fans out there. I what's your take on it, Ian? I think the pulse of the nation give us. [00:09:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's fabricated to try to have an interesting story for when they play against each other. I don't really think there's bad blood. I think they knew that Ben Johnson was going to be a head coach candidate. And I don't think Dan Campbell is going to be upset or mad about somebody taking their opportunity because he did that too. Right. I don't think that's like a mind blowing thing. I think it's just people trying to like find something because they kept calling this a revenge game. [00:09:56] Speaker D: That's absurd. [00:09:57] Speaker C: It was stupid. I was like, what revenge is Ben Johnson have on the Lions? They made his career. Like if it wasn't for the Lions organization, they didn't fire him. They didn't fire him. [00:10:10] Speaker D: They didn't. [00:10:11] Speaker C: He left on his own accord. [00:10:13] Speaker D: They would have kept him. They would have happily rehired, fired him. [00:10:16] Speaker B: After the playoff performance. [00:10:19] Speaker C: Here nor there. But the point disrespectful. The point is like, I don't really think there's a real beef between these guys and, and if you listen to like Campbell at the post game presser, I mean he basically confirms, like this is I don't know what you guys are all talking about. He said something to the effect though, that was interesting. Like, I think if anything he was annoyed of how much credit Ben Johnson was getting for that team's success. And so for them to like, drop a 50 burger. Dan Campbell did say, like, we know what we are in this building and we proved that and that we haven't changed. Like, we're not any different than what we were last year. And they showed that, you know. [00:11:03] Speaker D: Yeah, that seems to be the only thing that is worthy of note here. Like some acknowledgment that, like, oh, you guys are making too big a thing out of this. Like, we're still, we're still great. Like, we, we weren't great just because. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Specifically, did you know Kyle's wearing a blue hat today? Because the Lions won't. [00:11:21] Speaker C: That's true. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Last week wore a Packers hack as packers won. Is everything all right with you in your fandom? [00:11:26] Speaker C: You're going to wear a Vikings? [00:11:27] Speaker D: I'm just, I'm a fair weather fan, man. I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to represent whatever team's winning lately. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Thank you. Okay, go on, Ian. [00:11:35] Speaker C: But it was Dan Campbell even did say, like, it's the players. Like, we have the talent, we have the players. Like the players didn't go anywhere. And I think it showed even against Green Bay. If you watched the full game, as, as hard as that game was to watch completely, if we're being honest, the Lions really, their performance was quite poor in that game. But if you watch the whole game, there was like glimmers, like they were moving the ball, they just weren't finishing drives right. And they actually defensively were able to slow down the packers, but obviously they stayed on the field for so long. After a certain point, eventually teams kind of break three from that. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Does golf's pressure worry you, by the way? [00:12:20] Speaker C: That's always been a thing with him. It was a thing over with the Rams too, where he's under pressure, you know. But I. That's almost any quarterback, if they're under pressure on a consistent basis, you know, they're going to have struggles. You know, they're either going to like. I think there are very few quarterbacks when they're under pressure, are maybe better. Right. I think Aaron Rodgers in his prime was a really good scrambler. I think Mahomes, I think Jackson, like Lamar, I mean, mostly because he'll burn you with your. His legs. I think Josh has that really good. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Backpedal in the pocket. [00:13:02] Speaker D: Right. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Impressive. [00:13:03] Speaker C: You can name almost any super mobile quarterback and they'll be better under pressure than golf is because he's just not mobile, but he's got a hell of a ball on him when he's got a clean pocket. And that's. I mean, it was noticeable in week one when he didn't have a clean pocket. How hard of a time they had. But I don't know, you give anybody a crap o line, they're gonna have a hard time. [00:13:28] Speaker D: I liked what Ben Johnson said in the press conference today. He was. He was asked about whether, you know, the Lions were running up the score on. [00:13:34] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:13:35] Speaker D: And he was just saying, like, that's. That's who they are. That's basically. That's our identity. The Lions have to do that. Yeah, they have to. This is like a fourth and goal. They've got to go for it. They always have. We're, like, acknowledging that, like, we're no different. We're just another opponent on the Lion's path. And they're doing what they do against everybody. It's not because of some personal thing. [00:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah. So they would have done that no matter what. [00:13:59] Speaker D: Nonsense. [00:14:00] Speaker C: Yeah, they would have done that no matter what. [00:14:01] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:14:02] Speaker C: What about Aaron Glenn, Marshall? [00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I. Justin Fields is kind of a question mark. And when I looked at their game yesterday, it was really scary what a bad quarterback play could do to that team. And we saw the week before what great quarterback play can be. And that's been the play of Justin Fields. He's pretty inconsistent, but it was really interesting to see the very high and the very low of his dip. It wasn't below average and above average. It was. Yeah, great. He's the reason they were in the game with the Steelers week one. He is absolutely the reason they lost. [00:14:43] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:14:44] Speaker B: In week two. So what I will say, I don't know what I can get from that about Aaron Glenn, because one thing I do like, and I. Sorry to cut you off. I like that the Lions are creating a coach that he's a manager, not a game manager, like a quarterback, but like, he will be the head coach. He will delegate offense to offense, defense to defense. It's what Nick Sirianni has done it with the Eagles. I do think that's what Dan Campbell's done with the Lions. I like that philosophy. Not just because it gives me somebody else to be mad at other than the coach. Puts a little bit of credit and blame shared around, but I think that's really what a head coach should be because a lot of people are good coordinators and not a good head coach. Ben Johnson could be a Great coordinator. [00:15:37] Speaker D: Mike McDaniel, Miami. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Come on think of Vic Fangio fans. Yeah, Fangio. Like, isn't it Fangs? Isn't he what he goes by? I didn't want to say Spags and Fangs. That would be weird. [00:15:50] Speaker C: Miami is a really interesting one because especially now. [00:15:53] Speaker B: I mean, that guy's fired in four weeks. [00:15:56] Speaker C: Mike McDaniels, like, if you even watch his press conferences, like, it's like he sees the writing on the wall. He sees that team slipping and he knows. [00:16:05] Speaker B: He basically said on the final play that the play wasn't executed by his players and it was called in the right fashion and his players didn't get to the line. Like, you said that without saying that. No quarterback or no coach says that. But then a sentence previous said that it's his. He's the head coach, and it's up to him and everything falls on him. How can you say both things? [00:16:26] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:16:27] Speaker D: Yeah, coaches don't say that. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Coaches are the person. Like, it's all. It really would go owner, gm, head coach and below, the head coach are his people. It's not. And head coach alongside a defensive coordinator. Because I also call the offense. [00:16:43] Speaker C: And this is the thing that I. [00:16:45] Speaker B: Would say in a pseudo offensive coordinator, that it doesn't really do anything, but could get fired at any moment. [00:16:50] Speaker C: This is the thing. [00:16:51] Speaker D: What are you here for? [00:16:51] Speaker B: Coordinator for the Bears. Can you name him? [00:16:53] Speaker D: I. No. [00:16:54] Speaker C: No. [00:16:55] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker C: Because Ben Johnson, who's the OC for the Rams. [00:16:58] Speaker D: Do you know? [00:16:59] Speaker B: No clue. [00:17:00] Speaker D: Right. [00:17:02] Speaker C: What I will say, though, and we can kind of wrap it up with this, is like, what Ben Johnson did with the Lions was obviously fantastic. When Dan Campbell came into the lines, they sucked. They were 313. Like, they were not great their first year. But what was different is a couple things that you've already mentioned. When they lost, Dan Campbell shouldered that blame. He blamed himself openly, outwardly, literally cried in front of people because of, like, how upset he was. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Giant crying. I loved it, actually. [00:17:37] Speaker C: Like, how upset he was with himself. Not even at the team or the players. Like, he was upset with himself. And it was like, when the players saw that he wasn't pointing the blame at them, he was shouldering it. And he was, like, emotional for them. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's pretty cool. [00:17:56] Speaker C: Like, helped them buy into what they were able to eventually build in Detroit. And I just don't know if I see Ben Johnson as the same type of guy. I don't see him as a culture setter. And I feel like, at least when you're building a team the way that Dan Campbell did it. He built it on culture first, and then everything else kind of started falling into place. [00:18:24] Speaker B: And I think there's something to be said about Aaron Glenn and being like a culture guy. Inexperienced blackhead coach. Like, I think that. That they don't get a long leash in the NFL traditionally. Go look through the coaches who get fired first and have the least amount of time. A lot of them are African Americans. So like, let's right be honest about that. So our next question comes in and. And more. I just more or less I just say that because you don't typically hear culture being said from people of color who are put in those spots of like that just traditionally. I can't think of anybody who fits that criteria. There's not a lot of people of color that get head coaching jobs in the first place and get to keep them, especially in the NFL, unless you're Mike Tomlin. So just wanted to throw that out there. Chew on it. Wouldn't do with it what you like. Maybe made some people uncomfortable. I'm okay with that. Our next question comes from the commish, Adam Silver. [00:19:28] Speaker A: This is Adam Silver, AKA the Commish. And this is the commission report. All right, Purdy's out. Mac Jones is in. And well, here we go. I'll be brief. He holds on to the ball too long, but he did avoid turnovers and found the end zone past D. Looked sus, but the pass rush came through when it mattered most. See a Moody, but wow. Yeah. Panero's first extra point missed looked very familiar, but his field goals attempts looked good and I didn't have to hold my breath hoping the ball would clear the goal post. It's been a while since a game this early in the season against easy meant a whole lot. But that low key changes next week. This was the commission report. Hashtag just win. [00:20:12] Speaker D: Hashtag just win. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Hashtag just win. [00:20:14] Speaker D: I know he's throwing in these little Gen Z terms for you, Marshall. I know it. Anyway, thanks, commission. Great game for the Niners. Max Jones. So happy for all of you. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Great. [00:20:28] Speaker D: Yeah. So great. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Is it field goal attempts or field goals attempts? [00:20:35] Speaker D: I would. [00:20:36] Speaker B: It could be. [00:20:38] Speaker D: It sounds weird to make them both plural. [00:20:41] Speaker B: I'm with commission. I think it's field goals commission. I'm glad Moody isn't there. About time they took the L on that and just got rid of him. [00:20:51] Speaker D: It's too bad. [00:20:52] Speaker B: The Niners, are they the worst luck or is it cincy? In terms of. [00:20:57] Speaker C: This is a. So when it comes to injuries, the Niners are Pretty consistently always getting injured. I. They have had. I mean, I go back through the Shanahan era and look at how many have actually like, just been demoralized because of just injury, injury, injury. [00:21:17] Speaker D: Totally. [00:21:18] Speaker C: They. And that's. If I'm, like, the gm, if I'm the owner of this team, I'm, like, looking at this and I'm thinking, okay, maybe my head coach isn't the problem, but, like, something's going on here. Like, this is too consistent. They can't be, like, bad juju after a certain point of, like, years of consistent injury problems. [00:21:39] Speaker B: I think that's what it is for, like, the Phoenix Suns in the NBA. Like, they have a pretty. I mean, in new ownership, they've even cut the entire medical staff because they're like, it has to be something we're doing. We're gonna clean house and put in new people. I think maybe something that could be said for the San Francisco, like, their. [00:21:56] Speaker C: Strength and conditioning or something. [00:21:58] Speaker D: Right? [00:21:58] Speaker C: I don't know if it's like, a practice doing, like, an actual, like, physical thing that they're doing. [00:22:02] Speaker D: They practice. Do you think that they do? Maybe. [00:22:04] Speaker C: That's not. That's not what I mean. I mean, like, they're doing, like, a very specific, like, type of. Like Dan Campbell had said, like, with the Lions, they had practiced pretty hard. Like, they would do some very specific things. And that potentially can. Like, you look at last year, like, did they do that too hard because of the way the injuries work? But some of those injuries they have are, like, freak accidents. Right? I look at Christian McCaffrey and I'm like, that dude's always been injured. You signed this guy knowing willingly that this guy was injury prone. [00:22:38] Speaker D: Right. [00:22:39] Speaker C: Brock Purdy currently has also been injury prone. Right? Is it so. I don't. I don't know for sure. [00:22:49] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, we can. Or the commission. And he'll just tell us about it. [00:22:55] Speaker B: I really liked good pass D, but bad pass rush. I like the combo right there. That was good commission. I appreciate you. And. And I laugh, like. And I, like, approve of it. As somebody who's now gonna watch an Owen 2 Notre Dame team. Like, I'm okay watching some not great football because it's my team. So, Commish, I commend you for staying with the 49ers even last year in the hard times. Aren't they 2 0, by the way. Take note, Kyle. This is what a real fan does. Commission appreciate you. [00:23:28] Speaker C: They are two and up, though. [00:23:29] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:23:30] Speaker C: They haven't lost yet. [00:23:31] Speaker D: Who's Who's. Who's worried about the Niners? Who's weeping for the Niners? I mean, I'm not going to sit here and, like, cry for them. I would, like. [00:23:38] Speaker C: I wouldn't say anybody's worried about the. [00:23:40] Speaker B: Niners, but, like, who's weeping? [00:23:43] Speaker D: I mean, you know, their starting quarterback is injured. Whoopty. Do whatever. You know, like the Niners. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Just observation. [00:23:50] Speaker D: They do, but they're. They're just. They're just about the last team I'll. I'll sympathize for. [00:23:56] Speaker C: I mean. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Thanks. Okay. I didn't think we were going to go there today. Air G. Nuncio writes in. [00:24:01] Speaker C: Why are you getting so offended? [00:24:03] Speaker B: Didn't think that that was, like, who. Nobody. No, none of us are. Commish isn't either. No one's weeping for the Niners and saying that they have bad. [00:24:12] Speaker C: Well, yeah. [00:24:12] Speaker D: You were equating it to, like. Oh, I. I watch an 0 and 2 teams, too, so I know what it's like, kind of a point. [00:24:18] Speaker B: I know. I more am empathizing to the fact of, like, not good football. No one's, like, saying the 49ers is fun football to watch. I'm. I know the commission watches solely the 49ers. [00:24:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:24:31] Speaker B: I don't know many people that don't live. He doesn't live in San Fran. No, not his location. Off the grid. Yeah, but I don't know many people that don't live in San Fran that watch just the 49ers and no other football and would write or record 45 seconds about their team. That's just. It takes a unique beast and I approve of it. Commission. [00:24:56] Speaker D: Oh, it's great. [00:24:58] Speaker B: Somebody did a college podcast. I would give you 45 seconds about Notre Dame playing Temple. [00:25:03] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Like, I'm in for sure. That's what I'm saying. Yes. Giving you sass. I didn't mean to do that. [00:25:10] Speaker D: All right. [00:25:10] Speaker B: Eric G. Nunzio writes in. Is there a more disappointing fan base than the jets from week one to week two? All the promise of Fields and all the reality that you are still the Jets. Who could possibly feel worse? I figured it may be an open kind of question. With all the Owen 2 teams, I. [00:25:30] Speaker C: Definitely think there are worst hits. [00:25:31] Speaker D: Why is the week one getting played up so much? Like, he looked competent. He didn't look fantastic. [00:25:38] Speaker C: They didn't win the game because it was, like, high scoring. [00:25:42] Speaker D: We've got a large sample size for Justin Fields now. I think we know who he is. He's like, barely competent. NFL Starter material. [00:25:52] Speaker C: Interesting. How many? [00:25:54] Speaker D: There's no question mark here. We've got a large enough sample size. [00:25:57] Speaker C: We do have a large enough sample size. [00:25:59] Speaker D: This is season four, is it not? [00:26:01] Speaker C: I think a lot of it comes from the fact that this is team. [00:26:05] Speaker D: Number three, season number four. [00:26:07] Speaker C: But so in fairness to the actual, like, prompt here, I think a lot of the criticism with Justin Fields is like, okay, we're gonna cut him some slack because he was with Eber Floose and the Bears. [00:26:20] Speaker D: All right. [00:26:20] Speaker C: Like, okay. And then when he was with the Steelers, he looked fine, but then he didn't really get much of a shot after that. And so it's like, has he really had a lot of honest time to actually prove that he can be a starter outside of Chicago? I feel like he actually proved he could be with the Steelers, but they wanted to see what they had in Russ, and I don't think that's fine. I didn't actually agree with them, by the way. Well, actually, I think I did agree with them. [00:26:49] Speaker B: You were on the record. [00:26:50] Speaker C: I think I was. I think I will say that I did go with Russ, but after a certain point, it's like Russ started fading off in the end here. I can't figure out. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Are you saying there are worse teams than the jets, though? [00:27:00] Speaker C: Yes, of course there are. Worse feeling. Pretty worst feeling. [00:27:05] Speaker D: Worst feeling. [00:27:06] Speaker B: They gotta be hysterically as a fan. So as a fan, funny to laugh at their demise. [00:27:14] Speaker C: I'll give you. I'll give you a very easy, easy team that will almost always rival the Jets. [00:27:22] Speaker B: So we say it at the count of three. One, two, three. The Cleveland. [00:27:26] Speaker C: Yeah, they're awful. They're terrible. They. They have no direction over there. I. I partly kind of feel bad for their coach, Stefanski, and it is Stefanski over there. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Kevin. [00:27:40] Speaker C: I partly feel bad for him because it almost feels like the owners put him in such a crap situation and now he has no clue what to do. But then I don't feel that bad for him because I'm like, you're knowingly putting out Joe Flacco. Like, Joe's great, but playoff Joe is gone. You had, what, five games a couple, like, two years ago where Joe was like, whoa. [00:28:06] Speaker D: I feel like these are like. [00:28:08] Speaker C: Like great, different sound effects. [00:28:09] Speaker B: I can't stop hearing the sound effects listener you were talking about. [00:28:14] Speaker D: These are different. Like, these are different levels, though I do feel like jets fans would. Would feel potentially worse. Like, the Browns have never been good and have never had a whole lot of hope of being good. They don't have, like some storied history. They don't have, like a background of, like, success that they can look back on in the glory years. Like, they don't have any of that crap. [00:28:33] Speaker C: The jets have what Joe Namath as pretty much. [00:28:37] Speaker D: They've got some things that they reminisce about and also a lot of time where they. They like, look like there was some potential where they made moves, where they were changes. [00:28:44] Speaker B: They went around. [00:28:45] Speaker D: They went through rebuild after rebuild. [00:28:46] Speaker C: Hey, hey, hey. [00:28:47] Speaker B: Butt fumble. [00:28:48] Speaker C: Hey, hey, hey. [00:28:49] Speaker D: Yes. [00:28:49] Speaker C: Cleveland can reminisce about before the NFL existed, right? [00:28:56] Speaker B: Just like the Lions. [00:28:57] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Although the Lions can reminisce more about, like last year and the year before. Right now, the Lions are more. Obviously, the lines are in a position. [00:29:06] Speaker D: It's different. It's different, right? [00:29:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:09] Speaker D: The Jets. The jets, like, it's terrible, but I think that that's a big market team with a lot higher expectations every year, a lot more frustrated and angry fan base with what is actually going down every year. [00:29:20] Speaker C: I have a better question. Not which team feels worse than the Jets. Better question. Okay, same theme. It's the same spirit of the answer. [00:29:29] Speaker B: To it, though, to this one. [00:29:31] Speaker C: It's. It's the same kind of thing. Okay, okay. It's who should feel worse, the jets or the Giants? [00:29:39] Speaker D: Hmm. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. You're a source. [00:29:44] Speaker B: Owner. [00:29:46] Speaker C: Yeah, let's go to the owners. [00:29:49] Speaker D: I. I get an impression that the Giants look worse in terms of management. Like, that looks like a directionless team. I think the both teams look relatively directionless. [00:29:59] Speaker C: I think the Giants look like last year for the Jets. [00:30:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Who is actually calling the shots here? Come on, seriously, you guys. Like, what is your real plan? Because it can't be this. What do you know that we don't know? And it really looks like the emperor has no clothes. There's nothing going on here. There's no intelligent people in the building. You know what this looks like? It's just like, run by people who are like, I don't know, flipping coins. [00:30:25] Speaker C: Do you know what's funny right now? I don't even know which team you're talking about. [00:30:31] Speaker D: I actually looked at the truth in the past 10 years. I heard this out recently. The team that has lost the most games, the. Oh, the only teams that. The only team that has lost more games in the past 10 years than the Giants is the Jets. Wow. [00:30:51] Speaker C: Gosh, that's awful. [00:30:54] Speaker D: They're terrible. They've been like, how come the. Both the New York team. [00:30:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Howard, like, so bad. New York teams should be like you would imagine. They should be premium. [00:31:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Actually, I think the Jaguars are in that mix, too. [00:31:05] Speaker C: If the NFL was actually scripted, New York should be way more. [00:31:09] Speaker D: This doesn't make any sense. How can they be this bad for this long? We're talking in terms of like decades now that this. These teams have been dumped on. Like, the Giants are kind of like no one who was involved in their strong years when we were younger is in the building anymore. None of those people are here like that. That it doesn't matter now. You are a laughingstock. A franchise with no plan making the most ridiculous moves. [00:31:34] Speaker C: And your quarterback that you just shipped off to the Colts is man making a name for himself. I mean, we got Indiana Jones going on. [00:31:45] Speaker D: They didn't ship him to the Colts, though. He was. He signed with a one or two other teams in between. [00:31:50] Speaker C: Well, he went to Minnesota. Yes, but they don't. Like, they didn't. [00:31:54] Speaker D: You didn't play. [00:31:55] Speaker C: He didn't play. Like, he had a good year. He had one good year that got him to the playoffs. [00:32:00] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:32:01] Speaker C: Which I actually think they even won that game. [00:32:03] Speaker D: They did. They beat the Minnesota Vikings. [00:32:05] Speaker C: And then, you know, the next year it all falls apart and everyone's thinking, day ball. Coach of the year. He was. That feels like a lifetime ago. Stefanski was Coach of the Year. [00:32:18] Speaker D: Yeah. Thank God Mike Vrabel was Coach of the Year. [00:32:22] Speaker B: Sound. Was that. That just came out of your mouth? [00:32:24] Speaker C: Thank God that Campbell never got that award. There is very clearly a trend there. [00:32:30] Speaker D: Right. [00:32:32] Speaker C: He'll never get it now. [00:32:34] Speaker D: Is McConnell gearing up for a terrible year? Yeah, it might be. This could be a really bad year for McConnell. [00:32:40] Speaker C: Can we get it to LaFleur next? It might be. [00:32:44] Speaker D: Stop. [00:32:44] Speaker C: No, but this is interesting. LaFleur never got it either. [00:32:48] Speaker D: Right. [00:32:48] Speaker C: And both LaFleur and Campbell, I think, have proven to be very successful head coaches. [00:32:53] Speaker D: Evidence suggests it's a cursed award. [00:32:55] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. [00:32:56] Speaker D: It's like being on the Madden cover or something like that sort of thing. [00:33:00] Speaker C: Something's going to happen. [00:33:01] Speaker D: Yeah. You don't want it. Don't give it to me. [00:33:03] Speaker C: Good question. Only specifically because. Better question. It's more of like the question. [00:33:10] Speaker D: New York team sucks worse. I kind of like, I don't even know how to choose, actually. [00:33:14] Speaker C: I know, but I felt like that was still in the spirit of the question. [00:33:17] Speaker D: Honestly, like this weekend's game with the Giants was way more interesting than anything the jets have done this season so far. The overtime game against the Cowboys that. [00:33:26] Speaker C: Game was massively infuriated. [00:33:29] Speaker D: Whoa. Tell me about it. [00:33:30] Speaker B: How many neighbors. [00:33:31] Speaker C: It was like, how many flags. How many flags were in that game? It was like becoming a joke. [00:33:38] Speaker B: There was four on the same player in one drive. Offensive tackle. And then he got bench at the players and the coaches on the sideline. He's the same guy punching people. He's literally just open hand slapping defenders instead of blocking them. [00:33:53] Speaker D: Wow. Yeah. It's crazy. [00:33:55] Speaker C: It was like 20 plus penalties, both from both teams. Both of them. By the way, this is how I know Dallas still sucks, by the way. [00:34:03] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Hit me with it. [00:34:04] Speaker C: They. I watched the end of that game in overtime. It was awful. Those were two teams that were trying to lose that game. Both had. The only reason Dallas even won is because their kicker is amazing. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Dude. [00:34:22] Speaker C: Generational talent. [00:34:24] Speaker D: Aubrey. [00:34:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:25] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:34:25] Speaker C: All they were like. They literally were like, we just have to get halfway across the field. They literally. [00:34:32] Speaker B: They didn't even five seconds after, like, more than. We don't want five more yards. We'll just. [00:34:36] Speaker C: They did. [00:34:36] Speaker B: And take a time out. [00:34:37] Speaker C: They did. [00:34:37] Speaker B: So we can get. [00:34:38] Speaker C: They literally would just say, we're just going to kick this thing. It's 64 yard and we're just going to. Yeah, just send them. [00:34:43] Speaker B: The worst part is he played for Notre Dame soccer team. [00:34:48] Speaker D: You can't even enjoy. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Claimed by the football team's Instagram, like every week. And I'm like, sit on the throne of lies. All right, our next question comes in from Justin Matson. It's too long for me to put in our dock. So instead simply says, imagine this. I'm going to read you guys this. This is what we're going to call story time. [00:35:11] Speaker D: Okay, Hit us. [00:35:13] Speaker B: There are 12 teams that have never won a Super Bowl. One of them has to be the last to win a Super Bowl. I believe this year will be Super Bowl 60. Can you imagine what it would be like to be a fan of the very last team to win a Super Bowl? What if the last team fails to win a Super bowl for an incredibly long time? What if they get close a bunch but never reach the peak? They get to a conference championship and lose. Or they even get to the big game and lose multiple times. They get close but cannot celebrate in the confetti. Do not pass and go. Don't collect $200, go to jail and draft 30th in April. Like how it took ages for Rory to win the Masters to complete his career grand slam. He finally did it. I believe all teams will finally achieve that Someday. But what would it be like to be of a fan of the 12th team that hasn't won? And there will probably be another four teams by the time we have Super Bowl 100. They might even be in Yerba in Europe. To sit. To sit there as the meme of the super bowl weekend, year after year, decade after decade, like the old LeBron memes. Set my phone to LeBron mode. That means I don't have a ring. What would it be like to say 40 years from now 31 out of 32 teams have won a Super Bowl. Everyone sitting there, 72, 73. Life is good. They're retired. Maybe they have grandkids playing golf in their red from the red tees, eating a dinner at 4 o', clock, apple pie every night. But not for one fan base. They are all senile. They're going crazy inside. They hate football, but they can't quit it because they love football. The team is competitive. And every year could be their year is a 12 win season. Enough to keep their hearing aids turned up on a Sunday afternoon to tune into their team. What would it be like to be that fan? Look at the list of 12 teams that haven't won a Super Bowl. You look at it and say, oh, it'll definitely be that team. They're always bad. Well, they'll probably be drafting high for a while then. And if they hit the right pick, it could be a lottery ticket for them. You can't really tell which team will be last looking at those 12. But what if I told you that I personally knew who will be that 12th team? [00:37:53] Speaker C: I know what to do. I know what team this is. [00:37:55] Speaker B: What if I could tell you which team would win the super bowl last? Who do you think will be that team? [00:38:03] Speaker C: It's going to be the. [00:38:04] Speaker B: Why is it the Minnesota? [00:38:07] Speaker D: We knew it. We forgot. Do you think we forgot who was writing this question? [00:38:12] Speaker B: Justin, you painted quite the picture there. You took me to. I was. I actually got hungry for apple pie reading that. It's the first read, guys. I read that for the first time with you. [00:38:24] Speaker C: I actually forgot that Justin, I think I was against Justin and Fantasy this weekend. [00:38:30] Speaker B: How'd that go? [00:38:31] Speaker C: Oh, he got his butt handed. [00:38:35] Speaker B: We can hear that. [00:38:35] Speaker C: We can talk about that later. But I actually forgot that he was our like local Vikings fans for a second, right? And then like halfway through I'm like, this is the Vikings. Because I'm like, they are equally always competitively good, but never. [00:38:49] Speaker B: I might make Justin mad if I read you some of the text Messages that him and I had. [00:38:54] Speaker C: You make me mad or. Justin, man. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Oh, Justin. [00:38:58] Speaker D: Oh, man. We don't wanna. We don't wanna take our listener off. [00:39:01] Speaker B: I just kept texting him, you got a quarterback, man. Just over and over and. Dude, I really do. I think JJ looked rough yesterday, obviously, but. But, man, he played great week one. He turned it on. Second half. [00:39:18] Speaker C: He turned it on. Yeah. The fourth quarter, you're right. He had one good quarter to his name. So far. [00:39:27] Speaker D: I see the flashes. I see. I see a young quarterback who has a lot of, like, settling down and learning the system to do. But, man, he puts a lot of heat on that ball and he gets his team fired up, and he's still got. He's got more talent than. Actually, I think I was giving him credit. [00:39:44] Speaker B: I agree. [00:39:45] Speaker C: What, bro? What? [00:39:46] Speaker B: That dude wasn't allowed to play and throw the ball against Penn State for an entire half, and he got drafted by Minnesota. That high. What, you people saw something? [00:39:54] Speaker C: Yeah. What you have to. What you want to see in a guy who's starting his first full season is that, though, you want to see flashes of brilliance. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Ward throw that he had yesterday. Right, Right. [00:40:06] Speaker C: You want to see those. Because if you don't see them, it's more of a worrying trend of, like, maybe we missed the mark on this. Like, oh, you're. You have. Like. Have I seen that out of Caleb Williams yet? [00:40:20] Speaker B: Not in the NFL. [00:40:21] Speaker C: Not. Yeah. I don't know if I have seen. [00:40:23] Speaker B: A lot of it in college. [00:40:24] Speaker D: I kind of think there's a good argument to that. Like, if you're a quarterback coming out, like, you've got to push for the flashes of brilliance because it's better to have a lot of that. It's better to be like, the Justin Fields and have, like, at least some highlights to your name. [00:40:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:41] Speaker D: With a lot of lowlights, too. Because then it is to have, like, a lack of either. Yeah. [00:40:48] Speaker C: Because what it means is, like, a coach will see that and be like, there is something there. We just need to figure. [00:40:54] Speaker D: We need to coach the bad stuff out. Right. You know, like, we could work on that. Like, as you mature, as you learn the system, as you get chemistry with your players, etc, like, as we beef up the O line, whatever. Like, you're. We're gonna see the bad things go away. At least we know you can do those really cool things. [00:41:08] Speaker C: Peyton Manning's a really good example of this. Brett Favre is a really good example. [00:41:13] Speaker D: Right. [00:41:13] Speaker C: Matt Stafford, I think, is another really good example of this also. [00:41:17] Speaker B: But are Those the outliers. I mean, I don't. I don't know because he is number one quarterback thrown at. Oh, don't worry. He had the most interceptions of anybody ever in the first season. And I mean, Trevor Lawrence didn't beat him the first year and he had Urban Meyer and I mean, you're not wrong. [00:41:31] Speaker C: You're not wrong. [00:41:32] Speaker B: I think the thing to look at yesterday and take it as a one game sample is they had a short week. Okay. Yeah, he's down to his third string left tackle, starting center. Got hurt. No. Jordan Addison. Those are pretty important. [00:41:46] Speaker D: Had a baby Friday. Yeah. [00:41:49] Speaker C: That man on Friday sleeping right now. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. He is. I'm optimistic for you, Justin. And I'll tell you this. Let's make a bet. Justin, you want. You are one of our most loyal listeners in terms of the fact that you listen all the way to the end of the pod. And Justin and listeners, if you want to hear my bet that I have for Justin, I want you to listen to the outro music all the way through. I got something for you, Justin. Let's go to our weekly segment. Kyle, let's hear our weekly segment. [00:42:26] Speaker D: Okay. I don't know how this is gonna go. I tried to do some prep and some research on this and. And came up, you know, with only so. So results. This might end up just being like a two minute rant that makes you guys go, huh? And then we move on. [00:42:40] Speaker C: Oh, no, we're gonna make it last. [00:42:42] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I like that. [00:42:44] Speaker C: I'm gonna draw it out. [00:42:45] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:42:47] Speaker C: I'm gonna take my time. [00:42:48] Speaker D: Let's go all night. Yeah, yeah, you. [00:42:51] Speaker C: I'm ready. All right, I'm ready. I'll light the candles. [00:42:55] Speaker D: We've got candles in here. We should. We should. We should have a candle lit in this room. Why would you were making that sound. [00:43:04] Speaker B: All right, let's get these two minutes over with, Kyle. [00:43:08] Speaker D: So I've been workshopping a take and a lot of times I guess all of us take. [00:43:14] Speaker C: Slow down. [00:43:15] Speaker D: This is how. This is how takes work, you know, like you hear discourse, maybe as the people you talk to, the sports media that you consume or something like that. And there's something that irks you. You hear, you know, maybe you see a lot of tweets about this and. Or if. If that's what they even call these things. I don't, I don't even. I know I don't go on there anymore. And something rubs you the wrong. I don't know what happened to My Reese's. I'm sorry. They, like, melted in the car. [00:43:36] Speaker B: For those of you listening this, there's. There's no way that isn't a pile of poop. [00:43:41] Speaker D: It tastes fine, okay? It tastes fine. [00:43:44] Speaker C: I literally unwrapped a recess. [00:43:46] Speaker B: Sponsored ad. [00:43:48] Speaker D: You had no Oreos. No Oreos on the table. [00:43:50] Speaker B: I'm sorry, Tommy. You heard it. Go ahead, Kyle. Give us your take. [00:43:53] Speaker D: So we observe takes and we react to them, and then we bring, you know, bring them to this show. And so I've been developing some, like, animosity towards certain perspectives. You know, like, there's a lot of, like, common takes in fan discourse or on sports media that irk me. And I'm sure you could probably think of some, too, a few that, like tropes that people say all too often, and you're like, that's reductive. That's. That's oversimplification. That's a dumb argument. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of people. Things that people lean on to, like, bash the teams or players they don't like and praise the ones they do. [00:44:35] Speaker C: And. [00:44:37] Speaker D: And so there's. There's one. There's a particular one that's, like, bothered me for a long time. And you guys know, there's a few in the past that I've, like, railed on. You know, like, I talked about a. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Fan of the same. Of two different teams. [00:44:47] Speaker D: Yeah, there's a divide and opinions on some of those things about the fandom, what it means to be a good fan. You know, we've had discourse in the past about rookie quarterbacks. I think I ranted excessively about that, and that's come up a lot. And a couple other things that, like, there's a few players in particular that I've, like, excessively defended. Probably too a fault. Too much. Too much to a fault. So this is one argument that I want to make, and I've got some data to support this. My notes are not as organized as I'd like them to be. I usually come with a shiny spreadsheet and clear conclusions. I left my laptop at home today for this episode, so that was kind of an accident. But I've got some notes and essentially the argument that I want to make for you, and I could give you some preamble to kind of set you up, but I'm going to just lead with the. With the. With the overall argument that I want to make. [00:45:46] Speaker B: No preamble. Just give us the amble. [00:45:47] Speaker C: I'm ready to be upset. [00:45:48] Speaker D: Right. I don't think you will. I don't think you will. [00:45:52] Speaker C: So I'm furious that I'm not going to be upset. [00:45:56] Speaker D: All right, here is my. Here's my argument in the NFL. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [00:46:07] Speaker D: The playoff choker quarterback is a myth. Oh, it has never existed. This league has never known one. That's my take. [00:46:22] Speaker C: What's your evidence? [00:46:23] Speaker D: That's my hot take is that the NFL has never had a legitimate choking quarterback in the postseason. [00:46:33] Speaker C: I really hope there's a video of an actual quarterback choking on their mouth guard. [00:46:40] Speaker D: Somebody's doing the Heimlich on the side. Yeah, yeah, that. That could be the case. That probably happened in the 70s or something. Yeah, right. [00:46:48] Speaker C: My teeth. [00:46:50] Speaker D: So there's a lot. This is, this is the discourse, like, so the, The. The narrative, if you will. [00:46:56] Speaker C: The. I know where this is going a. [00:46:58] Speaker D: Little bit that permeates a lot of sports talk is like, oh, that, you know, there's a certain player. The certain player get. Get criticized. Like, they can't get it done in the postseason. Like, it doesn't matter. Like they just. They can't win under the big lights or like they, they. They're not clutch or something to that effect. Like, we like to, you know, a lot of us casual fans like to throw that. Sort of, like, we get beef with some player, we'll throw that out because then they're not winning. The. The Lombardis, you know, Lamar. Right. Dak. Like, we could throw out a lot of. Eric Rogers, you know, we could throw out a lot of names, you know. And I'm here to make the argument that if you make that argument, you are dumb, basically. [00:47:46] Speaker B: Tell me why I'm dumb. [00:47:48] Speaker D: It's a dumb argument. It genuinely is. [00:47:51] Speaker C: And I can see why. [00:47:52] Speaker B: I'm excited for G to give you a long response next week, I expect. [00:47:56] Speaker D: Jesus. She's like the perfect fan for this show, maybe for this, for this show, because he's like, he's going to engage with this kind of thing. Like, I expect to hear from G about this and tell me why I'm wrong. He's been a loyal participant in this show for years, telling me all the reasons that I wrong. [00:48:17] Speaker C: She's telling you. Can we. [00:48:19] Speaker D: My takes in particular. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Why does he come after your take once? Because I'm always right and he did. [00:48:24] Speaker C: Shut up. What's funny here is you're saying G is going to come after you for this take. What? You have basically just said G, and I hope you hear this. He just called you dumb. [00:48:35] Speaker B: Whoa. [00:48:35] Speaker C: You literally just called coworker oh, you just called him dumb, my neighbor. You said this. [00:48:40] Speaker D: G hasn't said this to me, so I don't know. G might be very smart person. I don't personally know him. I know just like the, the, the takes. I'll say I won't qualify that. I'll just say the takes that he's brought to. [00:48:53] Speaker B: You're not dumb. You're just acting like someone who is dumb. [00:48:56] Speaker D: If I'm just saying that, like if I'm. I'm at a party, I'm chatting with somebody and they're talking about sports and. [00:49:01] Speaker C: They'Re like, oh, yeah, he's a choker. [00:49:03] Speaker D: Right? Whatever. Yeah. Joe Burrow or Dak Prescott or Justin Herbert or whatever. Choker. Can't win. Can't win the big games. [00:49:11] Speaker B: What about Tony Ro? [00:49:12] Speaker D: I immediately think, oh, you're kind of a dumb fan. [00:49:16] Speaker C: Tell me why. [00:49:16] Speaker D: Okay, you keep saying genuinely or you. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Keep saying that they're dumb. Why are they dumb? [00:49:21] Speaker D: The point is, there is not evidence suggesting that any quarterback in the history of this league has played enough in the postseason and performed poorly enough to fairly earn that criticism. [00:49:48] Speaker C: Oh, well, I have. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Go ahead, finish your argument before. [00:49:54] Speaker D: I think this is not the case in other sports, for what it's worth. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Because they're one game sample size. [00:49:59] Speaker D: That's a big part of it. There are a lot of other games where there's a lot. I mean, we look at James Harden stats in the NBA and it's just like incredible. The difference between regular season and postseason performance. And that's a large sample size. That's a lot of games. Ton of games. And his drop off in the postseason is just crazy. And I don't like to say that anybody is like a postseason choker, but. [00:50:20] Speaker B: Seven games, eight teams make the playoffs each year, though my only current. [00:50:24] Speaker D: The NFL. It's a small sample size. [00:50:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:27] Speaker D: So in total, in the history of the NFL, there's like around 16 to 18 total quarterbacks who have played 10 or more postseason games, which is an incredibly small group. That's in the history of the league. There's only a few, like what you could fit around a conference table or in which the ones I'm thinking of. [00:50:50] Speaker C: Most of them are quite successful. [00:50:52] Speaker D: Yes. And 10 or more, that's not even that many games. That's less than a single season. [00:50:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:00] Speaker D: So we're already talking about an incredibly small sample size. And all of those guys, the percentage of the games that they played which were postseason games was like in the 9 to 12% range. So if you look at their career games, somewhere in the ballpark of 10% of the games they ever played were postseason games for like the, at least like the big names, the Brady's, the Mannings, the Rogers, you know, the. Yeah, so Montana's. And that's like the equivalent, the statistical equivalent of like one and a half games in a season. So if you look at a regular season and you said, you know, they had that one bad game in the regular season, you know, that's like the mathematical equivalent of like their postseason games relative to their entire career. It's just like such a small part of what they do. And every player, every quarterback has like a bad game in a season. So small number of players to survey, to consider. And I'm start. I'm saying that if it's less than 10 games, that's like not even significant enough to really qualify you in the conversation. We can't really make sweeping judgments about your postseason play if it's less than 10 games. That's not that many. It's a really small sample size. [00:52:30] Speaker C: Yeah. So my biggest. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do feel like there is a flaw with this argument, which is you are making the claim that no quarterback in the history of the NFL can ever be claimed as like a choker in the postseason so far based only on the fact that there's not enough statistical data to suggest that. [00:52:58] Speaker D: Not exactly. I'm saying that V. There was a very small number of players that we have what you could argue is enough statistical data. Most of the players that we're going to reference, you know, the, whatever Dax and Burroughs and Lamars and, and you know, whatever Bakers and all the other contemporary players that we look at, most of them don't have enough. They've got like a half a dozen playoff games to their name or less or something for a lot of those guys. And that's just like not statistically significant. And overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly. And this is where I did a lot of the data and where I have some spreadsheets which are. I cannot really view very well on my phone, but overwhelming. You're going to have to take my word for it. Performance in the post season tends to be highly comparable to regular season performance. And so the point is twofold. One, there's a small number of players that you could even start to make a rational argument that we've got enough data, we know how they play in the postseason. That's a pretty small select group. Two, if you actually look at their performance none of them were chokers. All of them put up the numbers. All of them played basically just as well in the postseason as they did in the regular season. Their numbers are highly. So there is the possibility that this could happen in the future. I'm saying as of this date in 2025. It's never happened before that we had a statistically meaningful sample size for any player and their performance was measurably worse in the postseason than it was in the regular season. That player does not exist. You cannot point to them. You cannot find them in the NFL history. [00:54:37] Speaker B: I'm looking forward to digging and finding them. [00:54:40] Speaker D: You can try. You can try, but the arguments are always going to break down. [00:54:43] Speaker B: Are you saying that my only isn't a quarterback stat to win then? [00:54:48] Speaker D: Well, I would generally say like a quarterback. Yeah, that sounds. [00:54:51] Speaker B: That's always kind of like what you're saying. [00:54:53] Speaker D: It's always kind of a weak argument. But still that's the most important position and games can be won and lost on the performance of those quarterbacks. [00:55:01] Speaker C: Right. [00:55:01] Speaker D: So they're in a very important position. And if you were to see meaningful differences in their performance between regular and postseason, then you could genuinely draw conclusions about that player. But it's never happened. There isn't a quarterback that you're going to come up with. You won't find one because I've already looked at them all. [00:55:18] Speaker B: I have a question for you. So do you feel like as like a fan of the Lions who have improved over the last few years? I just. [00:55:26] Speaker C: Out of. [00:55:26] Speaker B: I just want to give you this one question. When they play good teams, do you take more from those teams in those games than when they beat down on the bad teams? [00:55:36] Speaker C: Everybody. [00:55:37] Speaker B: I mean, I'm just asking. I mean because like there is something said for playing good teams when it matters. [00:55:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:45] Speaker B: That. That should have value. The value solely to the great games that they had against the Jets. That didn't. That didn't matter because the jets weren't going to make the playoffs and they continued Josh Allen to put up the stats that he does. You're putting an excessive amount of value on those games and not giving them to the teams where playoff football is different. Just like playoff basketball is. Like this isn't a basketball basketball, podcast basketball, playoff defense. And the way teams play each other is significantly different than day to day back to back games. Traveling across the country, NBA. And the same thing can be said for the NFL. They are looking for the weak point and they are going to attack it. I would say great moments for the playoffs. [00:56:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:38] Speaker D: Right. [00:56:38] Speaker B: Ben Johnson's play calls were made to be done in the playoffs and he did all of them early. [00:56:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:46] Speaker D: Yes, you're making a point, but as though I hadn't thought of that. But I did and I researched it and I have the numbers. [00:56:53] Speaker B: So this is why you asked us what the number would be. You felt like we could judge a quarterback based on how good they were or not good they were. [00:57:04] Speaker D: I texted you guys in the group chat a little bit probably based on. [00:57:07] Speaker C: Like, how good are they? Based on like, like, would you need. If you need 17 games to figure out how good a quarterback is, then. [00:57:16] Speaker B: Have any texted us? What's the number of games that you would feel like to know whether I can see the connection goods? [00:57:21] Speaker C: Basically, yeah, I can see the connection. My only problem with this argument is. Feels very semanticsy. It feels like a semantics argument more than anything else because when someone's saying like, they're a choker, of course there's not like going to be a large sample size to indicate, like, statistically prove that they're a choker, but there is like the feeling of like, oh, I've watched Josh Allen in the playoffs multiple times and I've watched him win against the Chiefs in the regular season multiple times. Also watched him lose to the Chiefs multiple times in the postseason. And people. It's like a noticed. It's a. No, it's a noticeable thing. It's a notable thing. And then when you watch the games, you watch like some very specific events unfold of like trying to force a ball somewhere. And it's not always. The one thing I'll agree with you on is it's. Most of the time it's. It's probably not always just because of the quarterback. Right. We can look at Lamar, for example, just because this happened last year, just. [00:58:27] Speaker B: Because Mark Andrews doesn't know how to catch. [00:58:28] Speaker C: Right. Was it Lamar Jackson's fault that they lost that game? I. It's as much his fault as it was Mark Andrews fault. As far as I'm concerned. Lamar had a fumble earlier in that game that was costly just as much as a drop pass from Mark Andrews was also costly. Right. So they are both that play. [00:58:49] Speaker D: It's not just Andrews also had a fumble in that game too. So there's two for him. [00:58:54] Speaker C: So we clearly we can add more here with him. But you get my point. Like, my point is generally like, sorry, wrong button. It is not always just a quarterback, but in a lot of these situations it is. I also, like, I Don't know how to feel about Josh Allen in the playoffs because he's got one of the greatest games in NFL history, as far as I'm concerned. Where they played, I think, dang near perfect football on both sides of that game with the Chiefs with 13 seconds. And it just. They got out gloried by a. Much like a better team, a better. Like at that moment. [00:59:34] Speaker B: So they got. [00:59:35] Speaker C: They got lucky. Actually, let me rephrase that. I wouldn't even say they got. They lost to a better team. They got unlucky on a coin flip. I think whoever won that coin flip, that particular game would have won that game. [00:59:48] Speaker B: And you can say that because we'll never know. I mean. Yeah, we'll never know. But. [00:59:53] Speaker D: But do you think it's like a rational argument to say, like to. To call Josh Allen a joker? [00:59:58] Speaker B: Can I ask you this? Do you think that it's fair that these chokers aren't given more chances to lose because people are sick of them losing and they end up losing the reigns? [01:00:10] Speaker D: I don't know what you're talking about. [01:00:12] Speaker B: Like, you're saying there isn't a big enough sample size for quarterback like Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins is an absolute choker in the playoffs. He is awful in the playoffs. And you can get your little sheets over there and look it up, but he's so bad that the Vikings had to go get rid of him because they are sick of giving him chances to lose. [01:00:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's tricky. [01:00:42] Speaker B: And the game you're gonna pull, I guess he had great stats in the last one was the same one that he was down 30 points in, so. [01:00:48] Speaker D: Right. Right. [01:00:49] Speaker B: You can put into effect looking at a box score is different than watching the game where he screwed them in the first place. [01:00:56] Speaker D: Okay, go ahead. Five games total for Kirk. Right? [01:01:01] Speaker C: In the playoffs. [01:01:01] Speaker D: Yeah. Career is one in four in the playoffs. [01:01:05] Speaker C: That's not good. [01:01:06] Speaker D: That's not good. But it's not big. It's not that meaningful. With a passer rating of 93.7 and five touchdowns and one interception in five games. He's not. [01:01:18] Speaker B: That's one touchdown a game. You're saying that's a good quarterback. [01:01:23] Speaker C: How many touchdowns? [01:01:24] Speaker B: No, no. [01:01:24] Speaker D: You're putting words in my mouth. [01:01:25] Speaker B: I'm saying that's a choker of a quarter. I'm saying that Andy Dalton could do that. And you're trying to say that he's not. [01:01:32] Speaker C: That's actually. I would love to know Andy's numbers too, because he equally was in the playoffs. [01:01:37] Speaker D: I'M saying that five games is not significant. That's not meaningful. [01:01:41] Speaker B: Just said a quarterback is similar to in the playoffs as what they are in the. In regular season. [01:01:45] Speaker D: Yes. [01:01:45] Speaker B: Tell me that he's five touchdowns at one touchdown a game. That's not true. You just wanted to look at this. [01:01:54] Speaker D: Okay. Yeah. I mean, you're picking out it. You're picking out as picking the stats you gave me. Right. It should have known you'd be picking out these random players, but sounds like. [01:02:09] Speaker B: I'm winning the argument. [01:02:10] Speaker D: No, don't be obnoxious here. The point. Okay. Multiple points. First of all, I wouldn't call five games significant. Like that's just not meaningful. [01:02:23] Speaker C: Yep. [01:02:24] Speaker D: That's not actually productive. To draw a conclusion about players performance. All of those are circumstantial because that is not against. First of all, this is with multiple teams. And all of those scenarios can be ultimately explained rationally if looked at the particulars. It's only when you have a large sample size that you can point to an individual's performance and kind of draw a conclusion about how they perform. You can't look at a small sample size and draw that kind of conclusion. That is in. That is irrational. That is in these. Most of those games, they're like a low seed in the playoffs going up against a better team. Most of those occasions, almost all of them, like, it's very easy to look at each one of those individual games and say, well, he did pretty much on par with what he did in the regular season, not dramatically different. If you're going to call somebody. If you're going to call somebody a playoff choker, then ultimately the onus is on you to support that by demonstrating a difference, a measurable difference in how they performed in the postseason compared to other contexts. [01:03:48] Speaker C: I'm raising my hand. [01:03:49] Speaker D: You have to be able to. Because if they are performing at the same level that they play out of the postseason, then they're not joking. They're putting. They're doing what they do. They are fulfilling their job. They're doing exactly what is expected of them. So the burden is on you, my friend, to demonstrate with proof how they performed measurably worse in the postseason than the standard they've already established. [01:04:16] Speaker B: You just. [01:04:17] Speaker C: Okay, okay. I kind of want to interject here because here's. Here's what I know about Kyle is that as a guy who works with spreadsheets and statistics and numbers, you know, you need like measurable information to be able to back something up. That's very clear as A science teacher myself, I understand how like you need, if you're going to prove something, you need a significant sample size. [01:04:49] Speaker D: Right? [01:04:49] Speaker C: I get that. I'm with you on the sample size. I totally understand where you're coming from. However, that doesn't necessarily change the perception of when somebody's watching a game and they're watching the same player year after year. And again, this could be a four year span. So you're talking four or five. You're talking a five game sample size, then tiny. Tiny. That doesn't change the feeling though of wow, I feel like I've watched this before. And that is where the problem comes in. So maybe they can't statistically and accurately prove that somebody's a choker, but that doesn't necessarily remove the feeling of frustration they have at the most important position. [01:05:44] Speaker D: You can have that feeling all you. [01:05:45] Speaker C: Want, but then that's. [01:05:46] Speaker D: You can't rationally, to me, convince me at this stage that there is a quarterback in NFL. You cannot convince me. [01:05:54] Speaker B: I just gave one and gave you the stats and you said, well, why am I giving the five games the sample size? You just, I, I gave you the stat. [01:06:02] Speaker D: That is not much of an argument, my friend. Give me a five game sample size of a quarterback complaint. [01:06:08] Speaker B: That's just said. You just said virtually on par the stats. No, Marshall give you the stats. [01:06:13] Speaker C: You don't like Marshall. [01:06:14] Speaker D: You did not give any stats. You said five games. Someone who has played five games in the postseason and is one in five. [01:06:22] Speaker B: He'S so much oker. He's got put on three different teams and they're all sick of him. And now he's being benched and paid $60 million. [01:06:29] Speaker C: The point you're missing, I feel like we're missing the point. [01:06:32] Speaker D: You're inventing your own narrative or you're applying your own narrative to his entire career to try and make a simple point against a player that you have a personal beef. [01:06:40] Speaker B: I couldn't find one. I found one. [01:06:42] Speaker C: No, you didn't. [01:06:43] Speaker D: You, you cannot make a rational argument that he's a playoff choker because the sample size is too small. And the performance in the postseason is basically on par with his performance in the regular season. And so Kirk is Kirk in the regular season, Kirk is Kirk in the postseason. And whatever has happened over the course of his career, basically not because of his postseason performance. And each one of those games is largely explained by the team's opponents, the overall games. And we could go at each one of those and find basically zero games in which it was decided by Kirk Cousins falling apart in ways that he doesn't normally. [01:07:29] Speaker C: Either way. [01:07:29] Speaker D: There's no example of that. [01:07:30] Speaker B: I don't think Kirk. That doesn't happen either. [01:07:33] Speaker C: That happens either way. The argument is that you can't show it either way. The argument here is that you can claim the five games, one and four in those stats all you want. What Kyle is saying is that's not statistically a relevant amount of games. It's not statistically enough. And that's true. [01:07:59] Speaker D: You need to have a variety of opponents, a variety of different contexts. For all the players who have played a lot of games, they've had chances. For all the Mannings and the Roethlisbergers and the Montanas and all these other players, they've had times where they were the one seed and where they were the sixth seed and where they were the three seed, and they've had times where they went up against great defenses and great quarterbacks, and they've had all these different contexts, and we get to see through those samples what actually happens and how their performance differs from other contexts where they're playing. And for a lot of these players, we just don't have a lot of that. And for Kirk in particular, he's never been a one seed. He's never been the dominant team. He's been a favorite a couple of times in his playoff career, but it's an extremely small number of times. It's gone games that went very poorly or where opponents played fantastic or where the defense let him down. And I don't know why I'm defending Kirk. I think you're just picking a player. [01:08:54] Speaker B: That you don't like for one. And I gave you one. [01:08:56] Speaker D: You're picking out a player that you don't like. [01:08:59] Speaker B: No. [01:08:59] Speaker D: And trying to make a story here. [01:09:01] Speaker C: Either way, you. You. While you picked a player that I think is a reasonable one to try to make the argument with because of what I was talking about earlier, is that, okay, even though you can't statistically provide a significant amount of stats to back up the claim, it doesn't remove the feeling of he's a choker because of how consistent it was. However, I do agree with Marshall that Kirk or Kyle. Sorry, Marshall, Kirk. Is that. I actually do think Kirk playoff and Kirk regular season. That actually feels like it matches up with what I have known and watched. [01:09:42] Speaker B: I just looked up the stats. He throws two touchdowns, a game, and a pick. Okay, so you're talking from one and none. So I just looked up the stats. [01:09:51] Speaker D: Passer Rating is ultimately about the same. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Just asked for a stat. I gave you a stat. [01:09:56] Speaker C: Okay, you're cherry picking one stat, though. [01:09:58] Speaker B: He's cherry picking one, too. [01:10:00] Speaker C: No, he's not. He's actually specifically saying that you can't cherry pick stats with that specific part of the. [01:10:07] Speaker D: Thank you. That is part of the precipice of the argument. [01:10:10] Speaker B: Because I think Kyle doesn't want to take. [01:10:11] Speaker D: I don't know, this doesn't seem like your thing because you like to do the stories and pick out the pick on players and stuff like that. But going back, going back a little bit, statistically significant sample size is necessary for anyone to rationally make these kinds of arguments. And a measurable difference in performance is necessary for anybody to make this argument. So you can't call a player a choker or someone who's not clutch or someone who fails under the big time if their performance is on par with their performance outside of the postseason. [01:10:46] Speaker C: And I will. [01:10:46] Speaker D: This is something I looked at a lot. I'm not just stating an opinion. I actually researched this and tried to be as objective as possible to see, okay, Kyle, is this actually true? Is this actually the case? Are there players? Can I find them? Who is the choker? Who's the biggest NFL choker? This was kind of a question that I was trying to answer. And I was digging through, I was making spreadsheets, I was crunching the numbers at great length, looking at all the players who have had any measurable amount of playoff experience, trying to see, like, who are the biggest chokers, who are the ones who just. Who just flunk, who just fall off in the playoffs consistently. There aren't any. There aren't any. Who, on a consistent basis, reliably perform worse in the postseason. [01:11:35] Speaker C: Yeah, what I. [01:11:35] Speaker D: The stats are very, very comparable. And I worked hard on this data and I'm good at data, and I even went so far as to try and adjust the data to make fair comparisons. So I looked at a lot of the top quarterbacks. I looked at, like, Rogers Manning, Brady Montana, a bunch of these. The top ones who have, like, the most playoff experience. And very meticulously. This took a long time. I was up too late last night doing this stupid exercise. And I looked at. In those seasons where they played. [01:12:15] Speaker B: Well. [01:12:15] Speaker D: Oh, in the seasons where they went to the playoffs and played postseason, how did they fare against teams that were playoff bound in the regular season to make a fair comparison? Because one critical point that is very much lost in a lot of casual fan discourse is the playoffs are Unlike the regular season, because they're just way harder. Because you're always going to be playing better opponents. You're always going to be playing better coaching, better defense, better prepared teams, invariably. So this is not a matchup against a chump. This is a matchup against the best of the best. And so almost all of these players see a measurable drop in their performance. Tom Brady is no exception. His ratings in the postseason are worse than his ratings in the regular season and all of his metrics. And that's a large sample size. That's like 48 playoff games in his career. Yeah, more than any other anybody else. And his numbers go down and so does everybody else. Rodgers goes down by like a very small amount, but it does go down. Most other players do. There's a couple who go up, like Favre and Montana go up a tiny amount, but it's like statistically insignificant over this large enough sample size. Basically demonstrating that they're almost the same player in terms of product. Even. Even. So I was looking against those top players and saying, okay, let's strip out the games against bad teams in the regular season and say regular season games against good teams who made the playoffs versus playoff teams. Just to kind of understand that because the context is the only difference. The opponent is the same to play in great teams. In either case, there are no gimmes here. And what is the difference in their performance? What's their winning percentage difference? What's their passer rating difference? I looked at as much as I could in the time that I had, ultimately drawing the conclusion that there aren't differences. In most cases, the numbers are marginally different and. And there aren't a player. There's not a player I could find. In spite of my best ever, I could not find a single player that I thought, okay, this is actually on them. They are what I would call the biggest choker the NFL's had. I legitimately couldn't find one that I think that there's a sound argument for. And I'm really basically excluding anybody with like a small number, like five playoff games or less. To me, that's. That's a joke. That's a joke to make that kind of argument. Unless they're. I mean, you could maybe if you could find one where they're like every single time, they're the 1 seed five times and they're favorite every single time. And their performance five out of five times has been way worse than their normal regular season. If you could find that player. Show me. But they don't I. I don't see them. They don't exist in the history of this league. And so. [01:15:18] Speaker C: Again, what we have learned today folks is a lesson in statistics is really what it is. [01:15:27] Speaker D: More specifically, I'm asking you to take my word for a lot of these statistics because I don't have that much of it in front of me. But it was very painful what it is and calculate these one after another. Like getting, getting the postseason record compared to regular season against postseason teams was really hard. [01:15:46] Speaker C: What I really think it is is for the average viewer of NFL, they watch these games or they watch any prime time game does this a lot is they throw up stats on the screen that try to make it exciting or like well this player is the most amount of their own four and. [01:16:07] Speaker D: Sunday night games, right? [01:16:08] Speaker C: Like they have these ridiculous stats or they try to create these anomal like these. They create a narrative to make you interested. But they do cherry pick. [01:16:21] Speaker D: Oh yeah. [01:16:21] Speaker C: And they tweak like this player is the bet. They they were doing this just like this past week with like Jared Goff and like Joe Burrow. I've seen it where it's like since 2023, like this player is like this. You know, they have the most amount of this. Oops, sorry. The most amount of this or this. And it's like they're talking over a very small kind of time frame that doesn't always paint the picture of the actual quarterback itself. So really what I'm taking out of this is just like when you're watching a game and you see these kinds of information getting put on the screen, like you have to maybe think okay, like is this statistically a relevant figure or are they just trying to paint a narrative because it's good for the views? [01:17:14] Speaker D: Yeah, there's a lot of that and I don't even hate those. Like sometimes they're enjoyable, amusing and and some they do find some that actually. [01:17:21] Speaker C: Are the lions, like on a waxing Wayne Gibbous moon or whatever it was last year on Thanksgiving, like they're Owen whatever. [01:17:29] Speaker D: Sometimes it can be fun to moon facts. Pick out some of these, these silly ones. And some of them are just good for the conversation while watching the game with your buddies. [01:17:38] Speaker C: But appreciate your work in the sheets personally because I know that that's difficult. [01:17:44] Speaker D: I want you to know that I was looking with sincerity, like not a whole lot of an agenda but trying to say like could I find who the biggest joker ever was? And being the kind of rational numbers minded person that I am, my Conclusion is that the NFL has just never had one. [01:18:05] Speaker C: It is now up to G to go and find that person. [01:18:09] Speaker D: I now, besides, I feel like I need to add disclaimers. Yours was weak. That was weak. [01:18:17] Speaker C: What he's saying is you need more data. [01:18:19] Speaker D: If you were to come to me and say that like in dramatic fat, you know, I wouldn't want to. I don't want to engage on that. [01:18:25] Speaker B: What about the eight games Lamar played in and that he had 14 or I'm sorry, 22.3 quarterback rating drop and play. How about the fact that he had 1.3 drop and touchdown to interception ratio compared to regular season to playoff right. [01:18:45] Speaker D: Over what he has. I think a grand total of eight games. [01:18:48] Speaker B: More than five is what you just said. [01:18:51] Speaker C: You're. [01:18:51] Speaker D: I'd say less than five. I'm basically like sweeping off the table. [01:18:54] Speaker C: Right. [01:18:55] Speaker D: As insignificant. More than five. We could start to have a conversation, but his record is still like three and five or four. Three and five, I think. Okay, so you want to engage specifically on Lamar. [01:19:11] Speaker B: I'm just, I'm. You asked me to give you some, I gave you some. [01:19:15] Speaker D: Okay. [01:19:16] Speaker C: The question really at that point is, is, is eight game a large enough sample size? A lot of, a lot of this conversation is hard to have and it's hard to properly evaluate a player with a sample size of 8 games. Which is why we can kind of go back to the initial questioning of how many games does it take for you to feel like you truly know how to like rate or feel about a quarterback before, like you know they're good or bad. [01:19:48] Speaker D: That's fair. Basically, if you're going to choose a single digit number of games, I think the onus is on you to demonstrate why those differences were dramatic. And you get to the point where you have to nitpick individual games, right? You have to go game by game and say what actually happened there. [01:20:06] Speaker C: So here's a, here's just to kind of wrap this because we've been kind of circling. [01:20:08] Speaker D: If it's more than 10, you don't have to do that. I'm not going to ask you to. [01:20:11] Speaker B: Go game by field goal. Post has moved again from 5 to 10. [01:20:14] Speaker C: So here's, here's a question to wrap this, this whole thing up before we kind of spiral back down the drain here between you two is I would pose the question to our listeners. What do you think is the actual a significant number of games in the postseason specifically for you to feel like you can evaluate whether someone's a choker or not. Okay. Let's just kind of leave it there. [01:20:40] Speaker D: I wouldn't even say that. [01:20:41] Speaker B: There's no other. [01:20:43] Speaker D: There's no. This is not actually to make the case that a player on a given game comes up short. [01:20:52] Speaker C: Right. [01:20:52] Speaker D: Like, you could say that. Oh so and so choked on that game. But I won't really take an art. I won't really argue against that. I generally wouldn't say that myself. But I'm not going to give you a hard time for saying that on a given game. But to put something on a player and say that that specific player is. Is a choker. That's who they are. Like, they cannot do it under the big lights. I don't see any case where that is. That is. Rings true for any player that this league has had. [01:21:27] Speaker C: Okay, so that's. [01:21:29] Speaker B: I'll leave it there. [01:21:29] Speaker C: We should leave it there because we got. [01:21:34] Speaker D: It was bumpy. I should have been better prepared. I should have done that later. [01:21:37] Speaker C: You were prepared. Were prepared. I was. [01:21:39] Speaker D: I'm asking you to take my word for it on so many things. [01:21:41] Speaker C: Well, well. So, I mean, that's just like how like statistics and like looking at data work sometimes is like when people are presenting you information unless you're showing them the actual spreadsheet. I mean, for you to actually look at, it's different. So it's not like I don't like. It's not that, you know, it's more like we've been. We gotta. [01:22:00] Speaker B: You know, how do we want to end this pod? [01:22:03] Speaker C: Well, we got picks. [01:22:04] Speaker B: Do we need to do Those? [01:22:05] Speaker C: Yes. [01:22:06] Speaker B: We're 80 minutes into this bad boy. [01:22:08] Speaker C: We're wrapping this thing up. [01:22:09] Speaker B: I gotta tell Ian or Justin about his bet. [01:22:13] Speaker C: Let's just get through the picks. We're right here. [01:22:15] Speaker D: The picks. [01:22:15] Speaker C: Whatever. [01:22:16] Speaker D: Whatever. [01:22:17] Speaker C: All right. [01:22:18] Speaker B: What kind of world. [01:22:19] Speaker C: Who we picking? Kyle, who's your lock of the week? [01:22:21] Speaker D: I don't know. Green Bay over who? Whoever they're playing. I don't know. [01:22:27] Speaker C: Cleveland. Green Bay over Cleveland. [01:22:29] Speaker D: Yes. Lock them in. [01:22:31] Speaker C: I'm taking Buffalo over Miami. [01:22:32] Speaker D: Lock. [01:22:33] Speaker C: Clean sweep. [01:22:34] Speaker B: Thirteen and a half point favorite right there. Buffalo. [01:22:36] Speaker C: There we go. [01:22:37] Speaker B: It's a big favorite. [01:22:38] Speaker D: This is Ian's year. He's gonna win it this year. [01:22:40] Speaker C: Love for that to go south on me. Feels like someone might choke that game away. [01:22:47] Speaker B: I'm picking Patrick Mahomes, the biggest not choker in the NFL to win this week against the Giants. [01:22:53] Speaker C: They gotta win at some point, right? They gotta win it. [01:22:55] Speaker B: You know, Patrick Mahomes has never lost three games in a Row in a season. [01:23:00] Speaker C: Well, he's lost three games in a row this year. [01:23:03] Speaker B: Comparing the end of the last year to the beginning of this year. Correct. [01:23:06] Speaker C: Right. So we're kind of getting there. [01:23:09] Speaker B: Just tell us your upset pick. [01:23:10] Speaker D: I don't remember. Titans will upset the. Not the team they play. [01:23:14] Speaker C: The Indiana Colts. [01:23:15] Speaker D: Thank you. [01:23:16] Speaker C: And by Indiana. [01:23:16] Speaker B: Indianapolis. [01:23:17] Speaker C: Indianapolis. I was thinking of Indiana Jones. [01:23:20] Speaker B: The Indiana Earth say Colts. [01:23:22] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more big throws from Cam Ward coming. [01:23:25] Speaker B: Their owner has the headphones on the sideline. [01:23:28] Speaker C: Yeah. That's fantastic. I. I like. [01:23:32] Speaker B: You're like. Shut up. I'm so done with you, Marshall. [01:23:34] Speaker C: I am gonna take. [01:23:36] Speaker D: Why do I pod with a hater upset? I got to. I got to. [01:23:39] Speaker C: I like this upset. Shut up. [01:23:41] Speaker D: All right. [01:23:42] Speaker C: Okay. This is a good upset. [01:23:44] Speaker B: Down your throat. Go ahead. [01:23:45] Speaker C: Because they should have beat them last year, this team. I think the Rams should have been going to the Super Bowl. I think they were the better team. I'm picking the Rams over the ankles. [01:23:57] Speaker D: Okay. [01:23:59] Speaker C: That's all I got. [01:23:59] Speaker B: The current biggest joker in the NFL, Dak Prescott, to beat the Chicago Bears. [01:24:05] Speaker C: They are not upset picks. No way is Chicago point favorite. Is this in Chicago. That's got to be the only reason. [01:24:13] Speaker D: Why such an eye roll. [01:24:15] Speaker C: If that only reason why would be. It's because it's in Chicago. [01:24:18] Speaker B: Just letting you know. [01:24:20] Speaker D: Wow. [01:24:20] Speaker C: Is there any we haven't done? We didn't do this last week. What's. Do we have a game of the week? [01:24:26] Speaker B: We're stood at the game of the week. If I was to look at these. [01:24:28] Speaker D: Games, it's Lions, Ravens. Everybody knows it's Lion. Ravens. [01:24:32] Speaker C: That is like the biggest marquee matchup. [01:24:34] Speaker B: On here this week because of a wife's book club. But it might change next week because Ian might want to watch some Monday night Football and. [01:24:45] Speaker D: Yeah, maybe he won't want to watch. I don't know. Yep. [01:24:48] Speaker C: All right, we're out. Oh, I hit the right button. [01:24:53] Speaker B: Well, thank you for listening to the point after. Send it to your friends. Send it to your haters. Fellow haters. Kyle's gonna write about me in his diary tonight. Justin, our bat. I will shave off my beard. Oh, please. Shave your head. Whoever wins the championship first, the Vikings or the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, I. [01:25:23] Speaker C: Will say never gonna beard. [01:25:25] Speaker B: If. If the Vikings win first. And you shave your head if Notre Dame wins first. [01:25:31] Speaker C: What if he goes bald by the time this happens? [01:25:35] Speaker B: Great head of hair. [01:25:36] Speaker C: There's nothing saying. But we don't know what it's gonna look like when one of these things. [01:25:39] Speaker B: Happen where that guy with good hair shaves his head and then he can't grow back? That could happen to him. [01:25:45] Speaker C: He hasn't agreed to this. [01:25:47] Speaker B: He will. Don't choke your bed away. [01:25:51] Speaker C: Statistics rock.